View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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    87 42.65%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1651
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    banning standard capacity magazines for standard issue civilian police self defense weapons is clearly a violation of the second amendment

    and the turd Cuomo has proven that there is no limit short of zero they will stop at

    That wasn't the case with the 1994 decade long federal ban, during which not a single 2nd Amendment challenge was made.
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That wasn't the case with the 1994 decade long federal ban, during which not a single 2nd Amendment challenge was made.
    find something more novel to talk about-that was then, this is now we have Heller and you seem impervious to any understanding of that point.

    lets have some fun-is there any limitations on magazine capacity that you (yes you) would find unconstitutional

    if you say no then you prove my point

    if you say yes you prove my point

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    find something more novel to talk about-that was then, this is now we have Heller and you seem impervious to any understanding of that point.

    lets have some fun-is there any limitations on magazine capacity that you (yes you) would find unconstitutional

    if you say no then you prove my point

    if you say yes you prove my point

    As the courts have found in the past, a federal ban of magazines with a capacity greater than ten would not be an infringement of the 2nd Amendment. I have no legal basis to challenge the precedent already established by the 1994 ban.

    If you think Heller in anyway will change that precedent you are free to find an attorney that agrees with you to take your case before the court.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #1654
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    this is filled with moronic ideas. what would army "experts" know about civilian self defense

    we already have expertise-government civilian law enforcement agencies have already determined what are the most suitable weapons for self defense against criminals in a municipal or urban environment

    THOSE ARE THE WEAPONS THEY ISSUE THEIR EMPLOYEES

    its amazing the amount of silliness that comes from people who are clearly so unlearned about this issue
    So out of almost a dozen points, you take issue with one? That's good headway.

    So what officers have is about what a civilian wants, eh? Largely speaking, LEO's carry handguns. You'd agree then that all a civilian needs for self-defense is a handgun?

    Nice way to talk yourself into a corner while trying to be a smartass.


    Besides your inevitable gripe on some proposal, do you have any real problem with my list?
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you think Heller in anyway will change that precedent you are free to find an attorney that agrees with you to take your case before the court.
    Watch, he's going to say he's the best attorney in the country, and then explain how he's going to successfully argue in front of the SCOTUS...all the while failing against random strangers on internet forums. He's brilliant isn't he?!?!
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    So out of almost a dozen points, you take issue with one? That's good headway.

    So what officers have is about what a civilian wants, eh? Largely speaking, LEO's carry handguns. You'd agree then that all a civilian needs for self-defense is a handgun?

    Nice way to talk yourself into a corner while trying to be a smartass.


    Besides your inevitable gripe on some proposal, do you have any real problem with my list?
    officers walking a beat carry handguns-you carry handguns when you aren't expecting trouble.

    officers expecting trouble get heavier stuff. the rest of us carry handguns while on the streets, while working, while dining while shopping. in those situations, carrying a more effective weapon is impractical for several obvious reasons. For defending our home or property in cases of home invasions or riots, a 5-10 shot shotgun or a 20-30 shot rifle is far more appropriate. That is why many police officers have such weapons in the trunks of their cars and many of us other civilians have them in our homes.

    I tire of people who have proven they really don't understand this issue pretending they ought to tell those of us who are expert in this area what we need. I have said dozens of times that the scenarios you might encounter as a civilian-be that a police officer, a shop owner, or a single mother living with small children, are varied and unpredictable and its idiotic for some people who have an anti gun agenda or pretend they have some expertise on the issue-to tell others that they ought to be limited to weapons inferior to what many criminals and every major police department has access to

    Also moronic is claiming that anything more than 10 rounds is "high capacity" and you have made that claim several times. a high capacity magazine for an AR 15 is more than 30 rounds

    for a glock 17 its more than 17 rounds

    ten rounds is a silly arbitrary number and Cuomo proves its merely a stepping stone to even less numbers
    Last edited by TurtleDude; 01-13-13 at 10:24 AM.

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As the courts have found in the past, a federal ban of magazines with a capacity greater than ten would not be an infringement of the 2nd Amendment. I have no legal basis to challenge the precedent already established by the 1994 ban.

    If you think Heller in anyway will change that precedent you are free to find an attorney that agrees with you to take your case before the court.
    You still continue to spew the same stupidity

    Until Heller, there was no supreme court precedent that overturned some of the idiotic court of appeals decisions that pretended that there was no individual rights

    that has been wiped away and that happened after the idiotic clinton ban died

    you never can make a rational argument about why these bans are good, you merely rely on bad legislation that no longer exists while ignoring a massive change in both the legal scholarship and the supreme court precedent.

  8. #1658
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    officers expecting trouble get heavier stuff. the rest of us carry handguns while on the streets, while working, while dining while shopping. in those situations, carrying a more effective weapon is impractical for several obvious reasons. For defending our home or property in cases of home invasions or riots, a 5-10 shot shotgun or a 20-30 shot rifle is far more appropriate. That is why many police officers have such weapons in the trunks of their cars and many of us other civilians have them in our homes.
    Yeah, how is that different from what I'm proposing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I tire of people who have proven they really don't understand this issue pretending they ought to tell those of us who are expert in this area what we need.
    You're implying there is an expert in this debate, and I'm at a complete loss as to who it may be. It certainly couldn't be you, you're barely presenting a coherent argument.

    Oh! You know, that's really nice to say that of Catawba, he does seem to know a lot more about guns and 2nd amendment decisions then you or I.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have said dozens of times that the scenarios you might encounter as a civilian-be that a police officer, a shop owner, or a single mother living with small children, are varied and unpredictable and its idiotic for some people who have an anti gun agenda or pretend they have some expertise on the issue-to tell others that they ought to be limited to weapons inferior to what many criminals and every major police department has access to
    Uh-uh. I recall it being claimed that rifles and shotguns are almost never used for gun violence. Now you're saying that civilians frequently are outgunned by criminals, despite having handguns? You're now essentially claiming that criminals use rifles and shotguns on a regular basis for home invasions. Get your act together, friend, and figure out what you want to say. You're contradicting your claims now.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Also moronic is claiming that anything more than 10 rounds is "high capacity" and you have made that claim several times. a high capacity magazine for an AR 15 is more than 30 rounds
    Clearly, high-capacity means something different in the world of politics than in the world of guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ten rounds is a silly arbitrary number and Cuomo proves its merely a stepping stone to even less numbers
    Does it matter what the number is? I mean, really does it? If you say yes, maybe you're a bit junior to be on a site called debatepolitics
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  9. #1659
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You still continue to spew the same stupidity

    Until Heller, there was no supreme court precedent that overturned some of the idiotic court of appeals decisions that pretended that there was no individual rights

    that has been wiped away and that happened after the idiotic clinton ban died

    you never can make a rational argument about why these bans are good, you merely rely on bad legislation that no longer exists while ignoring a massive change in both the legal scholarship and the supreme court precedent.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Heller and McDonald were about handguns. The Clinton Ban was about assault weapons.

    Because you clearly don't, do you know what dicta is?
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  10. #1660
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    officers walking a beat carry handguns-you carry handguns when you aren't expecting trouble.

    officers expecting trouble get heavier stuff. the rest of us carry handguns while on the streets, while working, while dining while shopping. in those situations, carrying a more effective weapon is impractical for several obvious reasons. For defending our home or property in cases of home invasions or riots, a 5-10 shot shotgun or a 20-30 shot rifle is far more appropriate. That is why many police officers have such weapons in the trunks of their cars and many of us other civilians have them in our homes.

    I tire of people who have proven they really don't understand this issue pretending they ought to tell those of us who are expert in this area what we need. I have said dozens of times that the scenarios you might encounter as a civilian-be that a police officer, a shop owner, or a single mother living with small children, are varied and unpredictable and its idiotic for some people who have an anti gun agenda or pretend they have some expertise on the issue-to tell others that they ought to be limited to weapons inferior to what many criminals and every major police department has access to

    Also moronic is claiming that anything more than 10 rounds is "high capacity" and you have made that claim several times. a high capacity magazine for an AR 15 is more than 30 rounds

    for a glock 17 its more than 17 rounds

    ten rounds is a silly arbitrary number and Cuomo proves its merely a stepping stone to even less numbers

    If I may add a bit...officers in my day had a 5 shot shotgun attached to the dashboard..if they needed more firepower, they didnt have rifles in the city, if you miss the round could go through tissue paper tenement walls and travel to far.
    Today some depts have rifles in the trunk along with shotguns if the officers need more firepower...and some depts have gun bus' that bring heavier firepower to an area of need.
    About clip size...well hell If I cant hit you with 10 shots 17 or 37 isnt going to matter much.
    After you break it in you can drop a clip and slap another in...in a blink...a well practiced revolver handler can speed load just a slightly longer blink.

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