View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1641
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    actually we do so stop lying
    You presented the point, so prove it. Remember, your experience is a really crappy source.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a cop has no greater right to use deadly force than you or I do
    Show me.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and your reference to vigilantism is both stupid and dishonest
    Whatever makes you feel happy

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if the purpose of the second amendment was to guarantee that all citizens had the same weapons as the individual military operatives, then clearly police defense weapons are well below that threshold
    Was. In a time when weapons were muskets. Then we invented airplanes, tanks and heavy weaponry, the likes of which our Founders couldn't have foreseen. To my knowledge, F-22's, Abrams and Bradleys aren't for sale to the public. We live in a stable country, and to say that the government is oppressive is lunacy, an insult to people being oppressed around the world, and, last but not least, completely idiotic. Clearly, the imperative behind the 2nd amendment has changed.
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  2. #1642
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    because for most of our history we could own more powerful weapons than the police used. I was carrying a 15 shot 9mm when cops were still carrying 6 shot wheel guns and had a M4 in my trunk when few cops had shotguns

    and now we have Heller
    So what's stopping you now from making your case to the courts that you feel you should be able to carry the same weapons as police officers. Don't you know any lawyers?
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    Re: Gun Control

    Biden: Consensus emerging on gun safety, plans to deliver recommendations to Obama by Tuesday

    "Vice President Joe Biden says he will deliver recommendations to President Barack Obama on steps to curb violence by Tuesday.

    Biden says a consensus is emerging over proposals such as tightening background checks and banning high-capacity ammunition magazines."

    Biden: Consensus emerging on gun safety, plans to deliver recommendations to Obama by Tuesday - The Washington Post

    Not quite the infringement on the Second Amendment that the far right has been fear mongering about, now is it?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #1644
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    1. The Federal Government mandates that all states with gun homicides above 3.00 per 100,000 are required to decrease the amount of homicides by 15% over the next 7 years. By that requirement, about half of the states in the union will be required to take action. The 15% and 7 years are just numbers; I don't know if that's a reasonable goal, and I'm flexible on what they are. I think sending states a mandate will do a lot of good, and let them look at their particular situation. Ideally, federal agencies would help states meet their goals.

    2. All states become shall-issue states for concealed firearms permits. Make it easier for average Joe to get a permit. Concealed weapons in the public do nothing but good, I think you'd agree.

    3. Take a look at gun-free zones. I agree, these areas are targets because shooters don't expect to be shot at before they get some of their work done. Schools should not be gun-free. If a gun is carried, especially in a school, I'd think about maybe requiring it to be concealed, and provide state or federal funding for training interested teachers in firearm use. In my opinion, a school should be a bit of a sanctuary from reality, a place for kids to prepare themselves for real life, without having to engage in the worst-of-the-worst. At the same time, we need to defend our kids, and I think this is a better option than placing guards at every school. Heck, maybe require every school have at least a given percentage of teachers trained in firearm use.

    4. Increase the amount of background checks on individuals trying to obtain weapons from gun shops. It might not make a large difference, but for those stupid few who try to get guns from a shop, and have a criminal background or history of mental instability, we should be aware of them. I remember the Virginia Tech shooter got a gun from a shop, and the owner remarked that he looked pretty clean-cut. Give gun shop owners the discretion, maybe a mandate to report people who fail background checks (depending on how many former criminals/unstable people try to get weapons).

    5. If there's one thing I've learned from researching gun control laws, it's that we don't have conclusive evidence for a nuanced approach. We know outright bans on guns 1. don't work and 2. aren't constitutional, but that's pretty basic, and pretty obvious. I'd like to see a the states conduct research on their specific situations, and see what we get.

    6. There are weapons out there that no citizen needs to carry. I heard that in a buy-back program in New York, IIRC, 2 rocket launchers turned up. Now, that is very clearly unnecessary, to most sane people. The extreme right-wing needs to shut up and sit down, because no one's interested in wasting time in taking a bunch of rifles from some hillbillies. On the flip side, I can't stand the "assault weapon" stuff of the left. I think Democrats really need to educate themselves on this subject, and at least learn how to say "sig-sauer."
    I think a few changes are in order.

    Include high-capacity magazine ban, for rifles. Exclude pistols and handguns from this.

    The part about state regulation should be changed a bit. The point of the state-by-state was to let them take care of their situations. But the problem areas are the high density cities. So I think it'd be worthwhile to include language that recommends, perhaps, that certain states look at the situation county by county, or region by region. Obviously, upstate NY doesn't have the same problems as NYC.

    Establish a committee of army representatives, and have them draw up a list of rifles that are unneeded for self-defense in one's home. Create special permits for procurement of those weapons, with special requirements for maintenance, storage, and a thorough background check and waiting period.

    I don't know if there is a standard issue handgun on a federal level for LEO's, but I'm in favor of issuing more powerful handguns to them.



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that this set of proposals appeals to both sides. And might actually work.
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  5. #1645
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I don't favor more gun control, first because of the 2nd amendment, and its importance, and secondly, because I don't believe it would have any effect on lessening violence in this culture. What we have is a cultural problem, not a gun problem.
    You're right, the problem of [I]gun[I] violence is not guns, but culture.

    That totally makes sense. Meanwhile, don't you think it would be a good thing if the bad guys didn't have guns?

  6. #1646
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by demokrat View Post

    That totally makes sense. Meanwhile, don't you think it would be a good thing if the bad guys didn't have guns?
    Sure it would be a good thing, but it's a moot point, because it won't happen.
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  7. #1647
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I think a few changes are in order.

    Include high-capacity magazine ban, for rifles. Exclude pistols and handguns from this.

    The part about state regulation should be changed a bit. The point of the state-by-state was to let them take care of their situations. But the problem areas are the high density cities. So I think it'd be worthwhile to include language that recommends, perhaps, that certain states look at the situation county by county, or region by region. Obviously, upstate NY doesn't have the same problems as NYC.

    Establish a committee of army representatives, and have them draw up a list of rifles that are unneeded for self-defense in one's home. Create special permits for procurement of those weapons, with special requirements for maintenance, storage, and a thorough background check and waiting period.

    I don't know if there is a standard issue handgun on a federal level for LEO's, but I'm in favor of issuing more powerful handguns to them.



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that this set of proposals appeals to both sides. And might actually work.
    this is filled with moronic ideas. what would army "experts" know about civilian self defense

    we already have expertise-government civilian law enforcement agencies have already determined what are the most suitable weapons for self defense against criminals in a municipal or urban environment

    THOSE ARE THE WEAPONS THEY ISSUE THEIR EMPLOYEES

    its amazing the amount of silliness that comes from people who are clearly so unlearned about this issue

  8. #1648
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Biden: Consensus emerging on gun safety, plans to deliver recommendations to Obama by Tuesday

    "Vice President Joe Biden says he will deliver recommendations to President Barack Obama on steps to curb violence by Tuesday.

    Biden says a consensus is emerging over proposals such as tightening background checks and banning high-capacity ammunition magazines."

    Biden: Consensus emerging on gun safety, plans to deliver recommendations to Obama by Tuesday - The Washington Post

    Not quite the infringement on the Second Amendment that the far right has been fear mongering about, now is it?


    banning standard capacity magazines for standard issue civilian police self defense weapons is clearly a violation of the second amendment

    and the turd Cuomo has proven that there is no limit short of zero they will stop at

  9. #1649
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "The ATF analyzed more than 1,530 trafficking investigations over a two-and-a-half-year period and found gun shows to be the second leading source of illegally diverted guns in the nation"Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And we certainly believe everything they feed us dont we?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #1650
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    And we certainly believe everything they feed us dont we?
    do you think those who bray about gun shows know the difference between illegally diverted vs use in a crime?

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