View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
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    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1631
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tell us what laws you want and what good they will do based on empirical evidence
    1. The Federal Government mandates that all states with gun homicides above 3.00 per 100,000 are required to decrease the amount of homicides by 15% over the next 7 years. By that requirement, about half of the states in the union will be required to take action. The 15% and 7 years are just numbers; I don't know if that's a reasonable goal, and I'm flexible on what they are. I think sending states a mandate will do a lot of good, and let them look at their particular situation. Ideally, federal agencies would help states meet their goals.

    2. All states become shall-issue states for concealed firearms permits. Make it easier for average Joe to get a permit. Concealed weapons in the public do nothing but good, I think you'd agree.

    3. Take a look at gun-free zones. I agree, these areas are targets because shooters don't expect to be shot at before they get some of their work done. Schools should not be gun-free. If a gun is carried, especially in a school, I'd think about maybe requiring it to be concealed, and provide state or federal funding for training interested teachers in firearm use. In my opinion, a school should be a bit of a sanctuary from reality, a place for kids to prepare themselves for real life, without having to engage in the worst-of-the-worst. At the same time, we need to defend our kids, and I think this is a better option than placing guards at every school. Heck, maybe require every school have at least a given percentage of teachers trained in firearm use.

    4. Increase the amount of background checks on individuals trying to obtain weapons from gun shops. It might not make a large difference, but for those stupid few who try to get guns from a shop, and have a criminal background or history of mental instability, we should be aware of them. I remember the Virginia Tech shooter got a gun from a shop, and the owner remarked that he looked pretty clean-cut. Give gun shop owners the discretion, maybe a mandate to report people who fail background checks (depending on how many former criminals/unstable people try to get weapons).

    5. If there's one thing I've learned from researching gun control laws, it's that we don't have conclusive evidence for a nuanced approach. We know outright bans on guns 1. don't work and 2. aren't constitutional, but that's pretty basic, and pretty obvious. I'd like to see a the states conduct research on their specific situations, and see what we get.

    6. There are weapons out there that no citizen needs to carry. I heard that in a buy-back program in New York, IIRC, 2 rocket launchers turned up. Now, that is very clearly unnecessary, to most sane people. The extreme right-wing needs to shut up and sit down, because no one's interested in wasting time in taking a bunch of rifles from some hillbillies. On the flip side, I can't stand the "assault weapon" stuff of the left. I think Democrats really need to educate themselves on this subject, and at least learn how to say "sig-sauer."
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  2. #1632
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    Re: Gun Control

    I would support the following:
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    I'd even consider becoming a milita member if the training was not too tough. I am a vet.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 01-10-13 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #1633
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    Re: Gun Control

    Biden carries out his charge to meet with all stakeholders:


    Biden to Meet With Gun Advocates, Including N.R.A.

    "In a statement Thursday morning, the N.R.A. said it was willing to have discussions about “reasonable proposals and plans,” but would listen to “real Americans all over the country that are hoping the N.R.A. is not going to compromise on any of the principles of the Second Amendment.”

    “We’re willing to listen,” the N.R.A. statement said, according to Politico."

    "Among those at the meetings on Thursday will be a representative of Walmart, the nation’s largest gun retailer. David Tovar, the vice president for corporate communications at the company, said on Wednesday that the retailer had been “very purposeful about striking the right balance between serving hunters and sportsmen and ensuring that we sell firearms responsibly.”

    But a coalition of liberal organizations on Wednesday sent a letter to Walmart’s chief executive asking the company to stop selling assault weapons.

    “Assault weapons of all brands and models continue to adorn your shelves, from Sig Sauer M400s to Colt LE6920s,” the letter says. “We know the horrific capacity of these weapons to wreak havoc on our communities because we have witnessed it firsthand. They have no place in our streets and in our homes, and we strongly insist that you honor your 2004 pledge to ensure they have no place in your stores either.”

    The groups, including SumOfUs.org, MomsRising, Courage Campaign and Change.org, will present petitions signed by almost 250,000 people, according to a spokesman for the organizations."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/us...-nra.html?_r=0
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  4. #1634
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    Re: Gun Control

    can anyone tell us why the second amendment does not guarantee my right to own the same weapons civilian law enforcement officers use under the same rules of engagement that I am under?

    Apparently Biden's meeting was more about pissing and moaning about the second amendment than protecting children

    he's an asshole pure and simple

  5. #1635
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    can anyone tell us why the second amendment does not guarantee my right to own the same weapons civilian law enforcement officers use under the same rules of engagement that I am under?

    If what you said were true, why has no one ever successfully made a legal challenge to the authority of police to carry more powerful weapons than ordinary citizens?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #1636
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If what you said were true, why has no one ever successfully made a legal challenge to the authority of police to carry more powerful weapons than ordinary citizens?
    because for most of our history we could own more powerful weapons than the police used. I was carrying a 15 shot 9mm when cops were still carrying 6 shot wheel guns and had a M4 in my trunk when few cops had shotguns

    and now we have Heller

  7. #1637
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    Re: Gun Control

    I said the day after Sandy Hook that no change would be made in any laws regarding firearms because the NRA sets gun policy in this country. Nothing that has been said since that time has made me change my mind. The laws will not change, unless they become even more permissive.
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  8. #1638
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    I said the day after Sandy Hook that no change would be made in any laws regarding firearms because the NRA sets gun policy in this country. Nothing that has been said since that time has made me change my mind. The laws will not change, unless they become even more permissive.
    lets hope you are right-democratic party gun control laws help criminals and killers

  9. #1639
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    can anyone tell us why the second amendment does not guarantee my right to own the same weapons civilian law enforcement officers use under the same rules of engagement that I am under?
    The second amendment isn't about vigilantism. No one believes you operate under the same ROE.
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  10. #1640
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    The second amendment isn't about vigilantism. No one believes you operate under the same ROE.
    actually we do so stop lying

    a cop has no greater right to use deadly force than you or I do

    and your reference to vigilantism is both stupid and dishonest

    if the purpose of the second amendment was to guarantee that all citizens had the same weapons as the individual military operatives, then clearly police defense weapons are well below that threshold

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