View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1621
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Right......Repeter documents studies and you only offer your biased opinions, and you think you've won the debate.
    I have won the debate, you anti gun types have not been able to find a single study proving gun bans make anyone safer and I have chicago, DC etc to prove that gun bans are failures

    Plus I have my guns and if the SHTF, I will be able to do what i want and people like you won't be in any position to say otherwise

  2. #1622
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and DOJ studies suggest that those who fight back are far less likely to be hurt or killed especially if they have a gun than those who act like sheep

    most people murdered are criminals and many criminals carry guns-nice try, that study fails

    common sense and 30 years of working with law enforcement.
    Oh so you have personal experience? Yes, I completely agree with your point now! You say you have so much experience! Why would you possibly lie, distort or exaggerate anything?

    It's not like you have a vested interest in this debate right?

    Come back when you have a real source, friend.
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  3. #1623
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your assumption is crap. the purpose of regulating firearms is to control people whose politics are often contrary to the gun controller

    those studies all are run by people who hate guns and work backwards to prove their hatred

    what is funny is that several pro gun studies were also authored by intellectually honest gun haters who came to pro gun conclusions

    Hemenway is a notorious gun hater whose methodology has been lampooned by other researchers


    fail on your part
    Okay, let me summarize what you said, just so we're on the same page.

    "Oh ****, you have studies and facts backing up your position. Instead of getting my own source that potentially contradicts or refutes your claims, I'll dismiss everything you said! Then, I'll make some general comments on how I don't like what you posted, and feel satisfied at my effective rebuttal, despite completely ignoring any and all arguments you presented."

    Is that what you're going for? Because that's pretty much what you said.

    If it's all the same, I think I'll start doing the same. It's easier than what I'm doing
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  4. #1624
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Oh so you have personal experience? Yes, I completely agree with your point now! You say you have so much experience! Why would you possibly lie, distort or exaggerate anything?

    It's not like you have a vested interest in this debate right?

    Come back when you have a real source, friend.
    I have read hundreds of studies. I have been at this for almost 35 years, professionally since the early 1980s. If gun bans were effective, the anti gun idiots would actually cite them

    the fact that the anti gun idiots talk about ENGLAND etc proves I am right

    and what you have done is google studies that support your agenda without actually studying those studies and reading the criticism of them

    its like the clowns who cite the infamous Kellerman study (if you have a gun in your home you are 6x times or so forth to be shot) well guess what kellerman's study would include cases where a disarmed home was invaded by ARMED robbers who shot people-that home was called a home with a firearm (duh no guns means no shootings -but all gun laws do is disarm honest people)

    then we have that idiotic study claiming few massacres are stopped by armed citizens. that is because that idiotic study only included massacres where lots of people are killed. In cases where there were armed interventionists, there were not ENOUGH innocents killed because the active shooter was whacked or taken prisoner by an armed individual

  5. #1625
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have won the debate, you anti gun types have not been able to find a single study proving gun bans make anyone safer and I have chicago, DC etc to prove that gun bans are failures
    I'm not sure who you're talking to, but I'm pretty damn sure I never said anything about an outright gun ban.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Plus I have my guns and if the SHTF, I will be able to do what i want and people like you won't be in any position to say otherwise
    Good luck with that, friend

    Tell me when you if you decide to come down from Bull**** Mountain, maybe we can hang out sometime.
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  6. #1626
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I have read hundreds of studies. I have been at this for almost 35 years, professionally since the early 1980s. If gun bans were effective, the anti gun idiots would actually cite them

    the fact that the anti gun idiots talk about ENGLAND etc proves I am right

    and what you have done is google studies that support your agenda without actually studying those studies and reading the criticism of them

    its like the clowns who cite the infamous Kellerman study (if you have a gun in your home you are 6x times or so forth to be shot) well guess what kellerman's study would include cases where a disarmed home was invaded by ARMED robbers who shot people-that home was called a home with a firearm (duh no guns means no shootings -but all gun laws do is disarm honest people)

    then we have that idiotic study claiming few massacres are stopped by armed citizens. that is because that idiotic study only included massacres where lots of people are killed. In cases where there were armed interventionists, there were not ENOUGH innocents killed because the active shooter was whacked or taken prisoner by an armed individual
    You know what, if you could show me these in the form of articles, PDFS, or something I can read, I'd be happy to take a look at them. Your "experience" isn't verifiable. So, this is what we're going to do. I'm going to wait for you to come back with something I can read, and rebut. You can either provide that. If you don't well, this "debate" is basically me talking to a wall with a sign that says, "No you're wrong! But I can't tell you why, just trust me."

    You see what I'm getting at here?
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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  7. #1627
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    You know what, if you could show me these in the form of articles, PDFS, or something I can read, I'd be happy to take a look at them. Your "experience" isn't verifiable. So, this is what we're going to do. I'm going to wait for you to come back with something I can read, and rebut. You can either provide that. If you don't well, this "debate" is basically me talking to a wall with a sign that says, "No you're wrong! But I can't tell you why, just trust me."

    You see what I'm getting at here?
    I really couldn't care less. I own guns and I know that even IF YOU COULD PROVE restricting my rights would somehow make society safer I reject that because I don't buy into that thinking The burden is heavily upon you not me

    you see you only have ONE valid argument for any kind of gun control-that is an increase in public safety and there are no credible studies that support such a conclusion. and EVEN IF THERE WERE, people like me still have numerous OTHER arguments

    those being

    1) constitutional freedoms are more important than safety in many cases-after all if we got rid of innocent until proven guilty, reasonable bail etc we could increase public safety

    2) if we limited car speeds to 25 MPH we'd have almost no fatal wrecks


    but we don't

  8. #1628
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I really couldn't care less. I own guns and I know that even IF YOU COULD PROVE restricting my rights would somehow make society safer I reject that because I don't buy into that thinking The burden is heavily upon you not me
    I met my burden. You ignored that, and continue to tout your own experiences, which are completely unverifiable, and thus have no place in this debate. Really, this isn't a debate, this is me talking at you, and hoping you'll take your earmuffs off, and listen.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you see you only have ONE valid argument for any kind of gun control-that is an increase in public safety and there are no credible studies that support such a conclusion. and EVEN IF THERE WERE, people like me still have numerous OTHER arguments
    Since you like to capitalize things that you think are important, how about this: you have NOT shown ANY of your SOURCES. WHAT ARGUMENTS? We've been discussing for about 3 pages now, and I have to know what your argument is, because you continue to not provide any.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    those being

    1) constitutional freedoms are more important than safety in many cases-after all if we got rid of innocent until proven guilty, reasonable bail etc we could increase public safety

    2) if we limited car speeds to 25 MPH we'd have almost no fatal wrecks

    but we don't
    1. With one of the primary objectives of the 2nd amendment being protection, you're sadly mistaken, yet again.

    2. That's not true, we'd have plenty of fatal wrecks at 25 mph. I don't even know what exactly you're comparing to in terms of gun control because you have yet to make an actual argument, besides that you're full of yourself and your great experience
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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  9. #1629
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    Re: Gun Control

    tell us what laws you want and what good they will do based on empirical evidence

    as I noted, I don't have to prove that owning guns will not cause harm-I couldn't care less. My rights should not be infringed because OTHERS misuse guns

  10. #1630
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    You know what, if you could show me these in the form of articles, PDFS, or something I can read, I'd be happy to take a look at them. Your "experience" isn't verifiable. So, this is what we're going to do. I'm going to wait for you to come back with something I can read, and rebut. You can either provide that. If you don't well, this "debate" is basically me talking to a wall with a sign that says, "No you're wrong! But I can't tell you why, just trust me."

    You see what I'm getting at here?
    Being a former gun control nut I thought I'd post this morsel for your perusal. Although this is also an opinion piece of sorts it's a good, logical argument. Sam Harris, the author, is a very well respected (except by theists, they hate him!) scientist in the areas of philosophy and neuroscience and is well published in both these fields. This is not some gun-crazed nut-job by any stretch of the imagination ...

    The Riddle of the Gun : Sam Harris


    Ed:
    BTW - I still don't own any guns and the only one I might consider would be a shortened "granny gun" (a 12ga side-by-side breech loader). Best home defense I know of. But, hey, I live in a neighborhood that includes a lot of police officers. A burglar casing a house/neighborhood wouldn't take the chance, so I feel fairly safe. Besides, I've always got my bastard sword or a ball bat if needed.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-09-13 at 04:32 AM.
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