View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1551
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    Re: Gun Control

    Depends upon the extent of the potential. If they could largely prevent the approximately 20 mass killings a year in the US? Probably.

    I don't generally side with the people who say we need guns to defend ourselves from a potentially oppressive government, but, given all the historical evidence, their arguments do have merit.

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I voted "Other" since the question assumes a "potential to save lives" that has not been shown.

    I'm sure they don't believe that - they believe that police will be able to arrest (some of the) said criminals before they commit the violent crimes because they are found carrying a gun. They also believe if there is less demand and availability in general then the number of guns owned by violent criminals will decrease.



    As usual, though, my stance is there should be no limits on gun ownership of any kind. If I had the money for a tank I should be able to buy one - assuming I'm a non-felon (violent crimes only) that's mentally fit.

    Is already illegal for criminals to possess weapons

  3. #1553
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    Depends upon the extent of the potential. If they could largely prevent the approximately 20 mass killings a year in the US? Probably.

    I don't generally side with the people who say we need guns to defend ourselves from a potentially oppressive government, but, given all the historical evidence, their arguments do have merit.
    The arguments have more than merit, they have almost absolute precedence. The only countries I know of that haven't gone completely tyranical after gun control are Australia and the U.K., though they do not have the liberties they used to, the reason they can't be considered completely tyranical is the lack of genocide and some continued property rights.
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Is already illegal for criminals to possess weapons
    Criminals, yes, but not potential violent criminals. If you're going to commit mass murder then at some point you need to acquire the weapons/materials to carry it out. If it's possible to legally purchase said weapons/materials then it's obviously easier for the potential mass murderer to also purchase them (or steal them). Also, at some point, you have to transport said weapons/materials from the point of purchase, then (usually) store them somewhere, then transport them to the scene of the mass murder. Transportation and storage also represent an opportunities for authorities to stop the mass killing.


    But, again, my position is that all weapons should be available - period, end of story, no limits - except checking for violent felonies and sound mind.
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  5. #1555
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I concede the wisdom of that statement when applied to the rank and file gun control supporters

    the leaders of the ARC-they have thought their conspiracy against our rights out long and hard
    I'm curious, is the Supreme Court in this conspiracy? Because, legally, speaking, they've declared twice in the last decade that handguns and weapons primarily involved with the defense of your hearth and home are protected under the 2nd amendment. Not weapons designed to prevent the government from doing whatever the hell you think they're going to do. Not for going out and hunting even. It's in case some guy comes into you house with bad intentions.

    With that being said, in my opinion, we should restrict as many weapons, and prevent as many people from getting guns as the data shows is advisable (which would mean decreases gun violence overall). Excuse the language I used, I have no interest in removing all weapons.

    I can already hear everyone telling me that in the states with the loosest gun regulations, there is the least amount of violence. However when you look at the demographics, its not because of the regulations as much as the population. The states with the lowest violence tend to be Midwestern or Southern states. A largely homogeneous population, and they're ideologically similar. Then you look at places like Chicago, LA and New York; they're completely different situations.

    That being said, we need to have the federal government mandate some very broad laws about who can and cannot own guns (a little more specific than now, in my opinion). They need to mandate use of the NICS, and send states a mandate to come up with their own laws, and give them a certain amount of years to reduce gun violence by whatever amount. Then the States could look at their situations, and figure out how to meet those goals.

    Also, looking at the numbers and statistics on concealed carry laws, I think every state should become a shall-issue state. Concealed weapons do almost nothing but good, especially when there is a relatively strict process to obtaining them.

    Lastly, I think we need to either end gun shows around the country, or introduce regulations for who can and cannot obtain weapons there.
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I'm curious, is the Supreme Court in this conspiracy? Because, legally, speaking, they've declared twice in the last decade that handguns and weapons primarily involved with the defense of your hearth and home are protected under the 2nd amendment. Not weapons designed to prevent the government from doing whatever the hell you think they're going to do. Not for going out and hunting even. It's in case some guy comes into you house with bad intentions.

    With that being said, in my opinion, we should restrict as many weapons, and prevent as many people from getting guns as the data shows is advisable (which would mean decreases gun violence overall). Excuse the language I used, I have no interest in removing all weapons.

    I can already hear everyone telling me that in the states with the loosest gun regulations, there is the least amount of violence. However when you look at the demographics, its not because of the regulations as much as the population. The states with the lowest violence tend to be Midwestern or Southern states. A largely homogeneous population, and they're ideologically similar. Then you look at places like Chicago, LA and New York; they're completely different situations.

    That being said, we need to have the federal government mandate some very broad laws about who can and cannot own guns (a little more specific than now, in my opinion). They need to mandate use of the NICS, and send states a mandate to come up with their own laws, and give them a certain amount of years to reduce gun violence by whatever amount. Then the States could look at their situations, and figure out how to meet those goals.

    Also, looking at the numbers and statistics on concealed carry laws, I think every state should become a shall-issue state. Concealed weapons do almost nothing but good, especially when there is a relatively strict process to obtaining them.

    Lastly, I think we need to either end gun shows around the country, or introduce regulations for who can and cannot obtain weapons there.
    the laws as to gun shows are the same as any place else in a state so you demonstrate you are not particularly up to speed on the legal issues.

    your rant about limiting guns is silly and demonstrates you believe in an incremental banning

    you also contradict yourself concerning concealed weapons.

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the laws as to gun shows are the same as any place else in a state so you demonstrate you are not particularly up to speed on the legal issues.
    At gun shows, it is far easier to procure a firearm than at a gun shop. Ergo, you are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your rant about limiting guns is silly and demonstrates you believe in an incremental banning
    That's right, I forgot your entire debate style is founded upon not rebuting points. I presented a nuanced approach to gun control. You said, "its silly, fallacy fallacy fallacy."

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you also contradict yourself concerning concealed weapons.
    No, its called nuance. There is a large difference between gun possession, and the right to carry a concealed firearm.

    Now, would you care to explain how the facts shows I'm wrong?
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    At gun shows, it is far easier to procure a firearm than at a gun shop. Ergo, you are wrong.



    That's right, I forgot your entire debate style is founded upon not rebuting points. I presented a nuanced approach to gun control. You said, "its silly, fallacy fallacy fallacy."



    No, its called nuance. There is a large difference between gun possession, and the right to carry a concealed firearm.

    Now, would you care to explain how the facts shows I'm wrong?
    what a stupid comment-gun shops are FFLs requiring back ground checks. dealers at gun shows have to follow the same rules. Private sellers at gun shows don't have to do background checks at shows or at their homes or in the middle of the inner city at 2AM

    Its hard to do the good thing of carrying concealed weapons as you advocate when its hard to possess them

    logical fail on your part

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    Re: Gun Control

    [QUOTE=TurtleDude;1061326607]what a stupid comment-gun shops are FFLs requiring back ground checks. dealers at gun shows have to follow the same rules. Private sellers at gun shows don't have to do background checks at shows or at their homes or in the middle of the inner city at 2AM[QUOTE]

    I put in bold what I'm talking about, but completely went over your head, despite you actually saying it. The other part is what law enforcement needs to look at.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its hard to do the good thing of carrying concealed weapons as you advocate when its hard to possess them
    Turning may-issue states into shall-issue states makes it easier to get a concealed weapons permit. I made no comment on the actual state-by-state guidelines for obtaining such a permit. Once again, you're putting words in my mouth, and then rebutting them. Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    logical fail on your part
    Because your inability to properly rebut my points with facts and data, and instead resorting to childish fallacies is so logical right?

    What would you have us do instead of what I presented?
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  10. #1560
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    Re: Gun Control

    [QUOTE=repeter;1061326904][QUOTE=TurtleDude;1061326607]what a stupid comment-gun shops are FFLs requiring back ground checks. dealers at gun shows have to follow the same rules. Private sellers at gun shows don't have to do background checks at shows or at their homes or in the middle of the inner city at 2AM

    I put in bold what I'm talking about, but completely went over your head, despite you actually saying it. The other part is what law enforcement needs to look at.



    Turning may-issue states into shall-issue states makes it easier to get a concealed weapons permit. I made no comment on the actual state-by-state guidelines for obtaining such a permit. Once again, you're putting words in my mouth, and then rebutting them. Sorry, but reality doesn't work that way.



    Because your inability to properly rebut my points with facts and data, and instead resorting to childish fallacies is so logical right?

    What would you have us do instead of what I presented?
    Nothing you can post on guns can possibly "go over my head" since your posts have demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge on a subject that I am expert on. PRIOR to 1993 NO ONE was required to do background checks on anyone buying a firearm. Congress decided to change 200 years+ of rules by requiring FFLs to do background checks. THis was enforceable because FFLs have a duty that is easily ascertained by other records to keep a log of all weapons coming in and going out of their businesses. Congress therefore refused to require people who have no legal duty to record weapons they buy or sell to conduct background checks.


    you blathered on about how great it would be to make it much tougher to get weapons. Why? so that honest people are disarmed?

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