View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1481
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I don't have any idea what your talking about..... You refer to dictatorship as a type of government which is mostly correct, and not a kind of society. Not really sure where the confusion occurred after reading my post but you are pretty much saying exactly what he was saying. That the public must protect itself from the government and if the government gets out of line, it needs to have the ability to overthrow it. A society in fear of the government that feels it has to be armed to fight against it, is not a free society. That was my point.

    I am still wondering what has caused you to engage in such a virulent hatred of firearms ownership by your neighbors and other citizens and why you only want cops and criminals to be armed

  2. #1482
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    Re: Gun Control

    My confusion with these types of people is where are they seeing this need to protect themselves from the goverment with guns? Gay marriage is being legalized in many states, gays have been let into the military, free speech is protected more often now than any other time in US history. Even that crazy baptist church is allowed to protest outside military funerals holding signs that say "thank god for dead soldiers". Women are increasingly becoming a vital part of the workforce... Legalization of marijuana is close at hand....Where is this impending oppression? I just don't see any trends that would support it at all. In fact, most trends are the complete opposite.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  3. #1483
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Not at all.

    Over the past several years there has been an absolutely massive expansion of the federal government and the trend has definitely been continuing in that direction. We already have a nation that has become largely reliant on the government for retirement funding and old age medical care. The scope of Obamacare is expanding that dependency as is the treatment of "too big to fail" institutions. We are looking at the very realistic prospect of the nationalization of many core industries and the further prospect of effectively disarming the general public. More than that we are moving away from the principles of Republican governance and toward a direct Democracy which would be HIGHLY likely to result in some form of dictatorship in relatively short order.
    But the government is not growing to oppress society, it is growing to offer more to society. No one is forcing anyone to go to the doctor at gunpoint.. no one is forcing large businesses to accept government assistence.. I don't see oppression being a factor in any of these things. Are they things many of us disagree with, sure. They are not oppressive measures that we need to free ourselves from by use of force.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  4. #1484
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I don't have any idea what your talking about..... You refer to dictatorship as a type of government which is mostly correct, and not a kind of society. Not really sure where the confusion occurred after reading my post but you are pretty much saying exactly what he was saying. That the public must protect itself from the government and if the government gets out of line, it needs to have the ability to overthrow it.
    You said such a society was a dictatorship. That was not an accurate statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    A society in fear of the government that feels it has to be armed to fight against it, is not a free society.
    A government can only reason with an armed society, because the government cannot force an armed society to do anything that society doesn't want to do. Being armed takes the use of force against you off the table, you can only be dealt with through reason and persuasion.

  5. #1485
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    My confusion with these types of people is where are they seeing this need to protect themselves from the goverment with guns? Gay marriage is being legalized in many states, gays have been let into the military, free speech is protected more often now than any other time in US history. Even that crazy baptist church is allowed to protest outside military funerals holding signs that say "thank god for dead soldiers". Women are increasingly becoming a vital part of the workforce... Legalization of marijuana is close at hand....Where is this impending oppression? I just don't see any trends that would support it at all. In fact, most trends are the complete opposite.
    So you're not aware of the private banking system, how most of the countries the US invades are countries who've tried to use a non-us currency to base oil on.

    ObamaCare is not about providing poor people with heath care. The people of the US are going to be charged a hell of a lot more than ObamaCare requires to operate and the extra money used to prop up this private banking pinzie scheme.

    The bottom line is: the government is mismanaging our money, the government knows we will kick it's ass, that's why they're trying to distract us with meaningless social policy on gay marriage and abortion, trying to buy us off with various hand-outs from food stamps to 180 day unemployment benefits.

    The government knows this bubble won't last forever, non-gold-backed currency never does, though it's never lasted this long before. The bubble will pop, the people will riot, and the government wants us disarmed before this happens.

  6. #1486
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You said such a society was a dictatorship. That was not an accurate statement.
    It is not a sole factor, but it is a product of a society that is governed by a dictatorship. If you look at many dictatorships, you will find an underlying group of people who continually arm themselves and fight against the government oppression. This is called a "coup" or a revolution. We did have one of these several hundred years ago, but the landscape is completely different from then. There is no fear the government is going to impose any legislation on the US by armed force. That has nothing to do with the US being armed either, as the majority of Americans are not armed at all.


    A government can only reason with an armed society, because the government cannot force an armed society to do anything that society doesn't want to do. Being armed takes the use of force against you off the table, you can only be dealt with through reason and persuasion.
    Sure it can, you think civilian weapons are a deterent if the government really wanted to oppress people here? With the most advanced Air Force and the most expirience and trained Army / Marine force in the world, you think they are scared of armed civilians? You can't win a war with guns against a force that has had much more training and also is much fitter to fight than you. You also can not defeat a force that is much more heavily armed and has a large technology advantage on you.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  7. #1487
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So you're not aware of the private banking system, how most of the countries the US invades are countries who've tried to use a non-us currency to base oil on.

    ObamaCare is not about providing poor people with heath care. The people of the US are going to be charged a hell of a lot more than ObamaCare requires to operate and the extra money used to prop up this private banking pinzie scheme.

    The bottom line is: the government is mismanaging our money, the government knows we will kick it's ass, that's why they're trying to distract us with meaningless social policy on gay marriage and abortion, trying to buy us off with various hand-outs from food stamps to 180 day unemployment benefits.

    The government knows this bubble won't last forever, non-gold-backed currency never does, though it's never lasted this long before. The bubble will pop, the people will riot, and the government wants us disarmed before this happens.
    I understand your issues completely. But none of them equal government oppression that we need an armed confrontation to solve.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  8. #1488
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    But the government is not growing to oppress society, it is growing to offer more to society. No one is forcing anyone to go to the doctor at gunpoint.. no one is forcing large businesses to accept government assistence.. I don't see oppression being a factor in any of these things. Are they things many of us disagree with, sure. They are not oppressive measures that we need to free ourselves from by use of force.
    When government steps in to "offer more" to society it inevitably cuts out private sector options which ends up limiting choices and making people more reliant on the government. The health care exchanges are a prime example. They mandate the type of coverage that has to be offered to the public and assess penalties on those who do not provide that coverage. That actually takes away options from the public who might well benefit from a different level of coverage.

    Why, for example, should I be required to purchase health insurance that covers gynecological exams and maternity care? I certainly have a relatively low risk of ovarian cancer and I highly doubt that I'll need to get an abortion but I now have to purchase insurance that covers that stuff because the government says that I do. If you think that certain financial institutions weren't forced into accepting "assistance" under TARP you are mistaken and there was pressure applied to companies such as Countrywide to provide financing to unqualified borrowers through threats to have their immunity from CRA requirements revoked.

    You might well see it as government coming in to make things better but the truth of the matter is, as has been mentioned above, that we are being put in a pot and the heat is being turned up.

  9. #1489
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    When government steps in to "offer more" to society it inevitably cuts out private sector options which ends up limiting choices and making people more reliant on the government. The health care exchanges are a prime example. They mandate the type of coverage that has to be offered to the public and assess penalties on those who do not provide that coverage. That actually takes away options from the public who might well benefit from a different level of coverage.

    Why, for example, should I be required to purchase health insurance that covers gynecological exams and maternity care? I certainly have a relatively low risk of ovarian cancer and I highly doubt that I'll need to get an abortion but I now have to purchase insurance that covers that stuff because the government says that I do. If you think that certain financial institutions weren't forced into accepting "assistance" under TARP you are mistaken and there was pressure applied to companies such as Countrywide to provide financing to unqualified borrowers through threats to have their immunity from CRA requirements revoked.

    You might well see it as government coming in to make things better but the truth of the matter is, as has been mentioned above, that we are being put in a pot and the heat is being turned up.
    So your going to arm yourself and overthrow the government because you have to pay for some poor chicks gynecology appointment?
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  10. #1490
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Sure it can, you think civilian weapons are a deterrent if the government really wanted to oppress people here? With the most advanced Air Force and the most experience and trained Army / Marine force in the world, you think they are scared of armed civilians? You can't win a war with guns against a force that has had much more training and also is much fitter to fight than you. You also can not defeat a force that is much more heavily armed and has a large technology advantage on you.
    I spent a year in Afghanistan, I'm intimately acquainted with how effective a low-tech 3rd-world militia can be against a modern 1st-world high-tech Army and Air-Force.

    Iraqi veterans can tell you the same.

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