View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1461
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Still doing the 'never been' tuff guy chest thumping on the internet I see.

    I'll type this slow because reality seems to have trouble penetrating your bubble...

    It won't be me telling you high cap mags or for that matter AR/AKs are not needed for homeowner self defense- you won't be carrying one down the street. It will be the Supreme Court- I thought you knew this lawyer stuff???

    Law Enforcement OFFICERS hold commissions- do you hold a commission? They have a duty to move TOWARD armed criminals, you do not. You have to really stretch 'self-defense' on it's ear to claim that is what a LEO's firearms are for. I guess my M16 was for self defense when I humped a ruck.

    But then again it isn't for someone so hard right on the 2nd Amendment they claim any restriction is an infringement, yet admit we do restrict it when it comes to the mentally ill and felons... it is for the Supreme Court and Justice Scalia has already gone on record that it isn't an unlimited right...

    Now as one shooter to another, it has always seemed to me the better the shot the fewer rounds you need in your mag, that you want so many in your mags seems contrary to your constant internet boasts...

    yeah I do but I won't get into what commission I hold. cops are no different under the constitution than OTHER civilians

    tell us exactly what YOU think the second amendment means

    to me it means Me and YOU and everyone else on this board who is an American citizen over the age of 18 and without felony record etc, owning the same individually issued weapons of our SOLDIERS

    M9 pistols,

    M4/M16A2/M14 rifles

    etc

    its always better to have 30 rounds and use one than to have 4 and need more

    I know of a perp on PCP armed with a BROWNING 32 who shot three cops-

    he took the following

    at least NINE 357 125 grain JHP in the CHEST

    three of the same in the pelvic area

    Four blasts of #4 buckshot @ 15 yards or less

    during which he RELOADED his pistol TWICE and engaged several cops hitting two in the legs and 2 others in the ballistic vests

    you'd think 13 rounds of 357 in the chest and pelvis would have stopped the guy right

    IT didn't

  2. #1462
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    That you conceded the points. Thank you.
    My daughter used to declare herself the 'victor' much the same way you do now, she was 12 at the time.

    You back none of your claims, I show where Justice Scalia has said the 2nd amendment is not unlimited, that neither Heller or Miller claims AR and AKs are protected home defense weapons- you refuse to show where either does FYI so the 'show me' crap seems to only flow one way in your hyper partisan mind- and there is no block to any ban or restriction as far as the Constitution is concerned as long as legitimate home defense weapons are allowed, now that the linkage with the militia has been struck down.

    I'm not sure just how you have to hold your head to see it your way, but the mental image is a bit disturbing...

  3. #1463
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    So following this slippery slope, civilians should have access to tactical weaponry.....right?
    If you mean, as an example, a fully-automatic MP-5 with a silencer, forward grip, folding stock, green and IR laser, sight of choice, and high-cap mags...yes, civilians should have access o that.

    But if you're talking about the Army's new M240L personal medium machine-gun with a 200rnd belt of 7.62mm...well then....yes, civilians should have that also.

    Any personal firearm the Army has, civilians should also have, because the whole point is for The People to keep the gub'mint in check.

  4. #1464
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    My daughter used to declare herself the 'victor' much the same way you do now, she was 12 at the time.

    You back none of your claims, I show where Justice Scalia has said the 2nd amendment is not unlimited, that neither Heller or Miller claims AR and AKs are protected home defense weapons- you refuse to show where either does FYI so the 'show me' crap seems to only flow one way in your hyper partisan mind- and there is no block to any ban or restriction as far as the Constitution is concerned as long as legitimate home defense weapons are allowed, now that the linkage with the militia has been struck down.

    I'm not sure just how you have to hold your head to see it your way, but the mental image is a bit disturbing...
    you apparently do not understand the difference between DICTA and the holding

    the holding established a TEST that I believe JERRY has posted dozens of times

    IS the Weapon in Common USE

    iS it unusually dangerous

    Hard to claim a SEMI AUTO RIFLE-millions of which were DISTRIBUTED TO CIVILIANS BY A GOVERNMENT AGENCY known as the DEPARTMENT OF CIVILIAN MARKSMANSHIP fail the first test but meet the second

    Yes, your truly, Turtledude Esquire owns 5 MI Carbines all which commonly were issued with 15 and 30 round magazines. all had bayonet lugs and one has a folding stock. while the cartridge they fire is less powerful than the 5.56 M1993 or the SS109 NATO round, they shoot 110 grain bullets at about 2000 FPS which is far far more lethal than say a 9mm Pistol

    and then there is the 4 MI garands I bought from the government. 150 grain bullets going around 2700 FPS IIRC. now that is a serious weapon.

  5. #1465
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    Re: Gun Control

    BTW when you get sworn into the state Bar-at least in NY and Ohio, they give you the same oath that the military take and NG take. One of my commissions is an OFFICER of the state courts of Ohio. Another one is an Officer of the US Federal Courts That's two commissions to start with

  6. #1466
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If you mean, as an example, a fully-automatic MP-5 with a silencer, forward grip, folding stock, green and IR laser, sight of choice, and high-cap mags...yes, civilians should have access o that.

    But if you're talking about the Army's new M240L personal medium machine-gun with a 200rnd belt of 7.62mm...well then....yes, civilians should have that also.

    Any personal firearm the Army has, civilians should also have, because the whole point is for The People to keep the gub'mint in check.
    Is owning a weapon for you a constitutional right and an indication of a free society?
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  7. #1467
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah I do but I won't get into what commission I hold. cops are no different under the constitution than OTHER civilians

    tell us exactly what YOU think the second amendment means

    to me it means Me and YOU and everyone else on this board who is an American citizen over the age of 18 and without felony record etc, owning the same individually issued weapons of our SOLDIERS

    M9 pistols,

    M4/M16A2/M14 rifles

    etc

    its always better to have 30 rounds and use one than to have 4 and need more

    I know of a perp on PCP armed with a BROWNING 32 who shot three cops-

    he took the following

    at least NINE 357 125 grain JHP in the CHEST

    three of the same in the pelvic area

    Four blasts of #4 buckshot @ 15 yards or less

    during which he RELOADED his pistol TWICE and engaged several cops hitting two in the legs and 2 others in the ballistic vests

    you'd think 13 rounds of 357 in the chest and pelvis would have stopped the guy right

    IT didn't
    Commissioned Law Enforcement Officers ARE different in the eyes of the law, that you think they are not is your bias. FYI I said both LE and civilians should be restricted to 20 rounds so you seem to read only what talking point you wish to beat to death.

    Love the unlinked 'examples' of other rounds not doing the job but wanting to say 10 more 5.56 in the mag of a weapon NOT USED would have done the deal.

    Show me where a PCP badguy took 25 5.56 before stopping and you have made your point.

    Ummm what LE Dept uses #4 buck?

  8. #1468
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Is owning a weapon for you a constitutional right and an indication of a free society?
    but of course.

  9. #1469
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the holding established a TEST that I believe JERRY has posted dozens of times
    That's my queue:

    DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER
    ~snip~

    We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those "in common use at the time." 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of "dangerous and unusual weapons."

    ~snip~

    It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service--M-16 rifles and the like--may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment's ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

    FindLaw | Cases and Codes
    In order to be a protected, a weapon must be "in common use at the time", and may not be "dangerous and unusual". If a given weapon fails one or both of these qualifications, it is not protected for civilian ownership. So, let's go down the list:
    • Pistol: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    • Rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    • Automatic rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    • Hand grenade: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    • Grenade launcher: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    • Rocket launcher: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    • Patriot missile battery: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    • Nuclear warheads: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    OK. SO the only need required for owning crack is that I wish to own it? The only need for owning a meth lab is that I want to own it? The only need for me wanting a nuke is that I want to own it? A tank? A missile launcher? There are no lines, right?
    • Crack Cocaine: In common use at the time: No. Is dangerous and unusual: Yes.
    • Methamphetamine: In common use at the time: No. Is dangerous and unusual: Yes.
    • Meth-lab: In common use at the time: No. Is dangerous and unusual: Yes.
    • Nuclear weapon: In common use at the time: No. Is dangerous and unusual: Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    I'm sorry America, but I'm afraid I don't believe in personally owned ICBM's.

    Shocking, I know.
    • ICBMs: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.



    Tanks are not weapons. Tanks are vehicles weapons can be mounted on, but anyone with enough money to buy one can own a tank. That does not mean you can have a functioning cannon, 50cal machine gun, 2 saw machine guns, or grenades...it means you can have the tank and the tank only. You can own a black hawk helicopter, also...doesn't mean you can have the twin mini-guns.

    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.

    *****
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Do you have to spam the same post in every single topic about guns?
    Here we had to link to this law yeat again. We have to keep repeating ourselves, so rather than write it out manually over and over and over, a lot of us just save it to a word doc.
    [quote]

  10. #1470
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Commissioned Law Enforcement Officers ARE different in the eyes of the law, that you think they are not is your bias. FYI I said both LE and civilians should be restricted to 20 rounds so you seem to read only what talking point you wish to beat to death.

    Love the unlinked 'examples' of other rounds not doing the job but wanting to say 10 more 5.56 in the mag of a weapon NOT USED would have done the deal.

    Show me where a PCP badguy took 25 5.56 before stopping and you have made your point.

    Ummm what LE Dept uses #4 buck?
    NOt in the eyes of the constitution.

    what if there are 5-6 bad guys

    how many home invasion robberies have you investigated?

    indeed fill me in on your CIVILIAN law enforcement expertise where the rules of engagement are a bit different than that for a grunt or a jarhead. that is what we are talking about-CIVILIAN environments, civilian self defense parameters etc

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