View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1191
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Quite a bit of it actually.

    It is always important to begin at the beginning with the Preamble. While in a strict sense, the Preamble does not confer specific powers, it does tell us what everything in it was written and what the goals of the Constitution are. Everything which follows must always be interpreted with the guiding principles contained in the Preamble in mind if there is any question at all about them.

    Very clearly the Preamble tells us that among the purposes of the Constitution are
    *** to form a more perfect union
    *** insure domestic tranquility
    *** provide for the common defense
    *** promote the general welfare

    There is no question that items 2 and 4 would allow apply to crime and how it effects Americans. So we need to keep that in the forefront of your thought on what follows.

    Article I, Section 8 - 1 allows Congress to
    *** lay and collect taxes
    *** provide for the general welfare

    Both of those could be employed on the issue of guns.

    Article I, section 8 -3
    *** empowers Congress the power to regulate imports so that could effect guns and ammunition from foreign nations
    *** empowers Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce and that would effect guns also

    paragraph 16
    *** allows for Congress to regulate the militia

    paragraph 18
    *** empowers Congress to make al laws which are necessary and proper to carry out the earlier powers

    All that can be used in the laws applied to firearms providing they do NOT result in the DEFEAT or DESTRUCTION of the right to keep an bear arms.
    that is just absolutely pathetic if one considers the premise that the founders were creating a limited federal government. regulating the militia does not create a power to regulate small arms owned by the citizenry.

    the interstate commerce nonsense is just that-it was a fiction created by FDR that took him and his AG months to come up with

    and you have previously stated that if you OWN ONE GUN your "enjoyment of the right" exists
    that is ridiculous

  2. #1192
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We have gone around and around over this hair splitting attitude of yours. How many straws may be added to the poor camel's back before that final straw is finally seen as an "infringement"?
    Nothing you just wrote negates the statement of mine which preceded your outburst against me. Again, here is what I said

    Actually, my opinion is supported by every single jurist who ever voted to accept and approve measures which by your own judgment are incremental encroachments constituting a much broader meaning of the word INFRINGED. As such, that list would include a legion of not only federal judges and supreme court justices but a good many constitutional experts as well.
    Perhaps you could prove that incorrect instead of attacking me? That would be most appreciated.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #1193
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is just absolutely pathetic if one considers the premise that the founders were creating a limited federal government. regulating the militia does not create a power to regulate small arms owned by the citizenry.

    the interstate commerce nonsense is just that-it was a fiction created by FDR that took him and his AG months to come up with

    and you have previously stated that if you OWN ONE GUN your "enjoyment of the right" exists
    that is ridiculous
    Your problem is not with me. Your problem lies with the language of the US Constitution. Unfortunately for you, it says what it says regardless if you support it or not, if you approve or not, if you like it or not, or if it does what you want or not.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #1194
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    Re: Gun Control

    paragraph 16
    *** allows for Congress to regulate the militia

    Then what would be the point of even having a militia since, in my opinion, militias are intended to protect us from congress and the likes.

    Just sayin'.....

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  5. #1195
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your problem is not with me. Your problem lies with the language of the US Constitution. Unfortunately for you, it says what it says regardless if you support it or not, if you approve or not, if you like it or not, or if it does what you want or not.
    no I know what the Constitution says. I know the foundation it was based upon and the concept of a limited government. The problems we have stem from FDR and his lapdogs who decided that the constitution, as intended and as interpreted for 140 or so years would prevent their socialist wet dream from materializing so they used their power and the crisis of the time to mutate, fold spindle and mutilate the document so as to claim it supported their massive government expansion

  6. #1196
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    no I know what the Constitution says. I know the foundation it was based upon and the concept of a limited government.
    We do now have limited government. We always have had limited government. There is no issue here to complain about.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #1197
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nothing you just wrote negates the statement of mine which preceded your outburst against me. Again, here is what I said



    Perhaps you could prove that incorrect instead of attacking me? That would be most appreciated.
    Each court case is different, so each judge's decision is different, yet limitted to the issue(s) of that law/situation. You will note that Heller "stepped on" or overrode many prior SCOTUS decisions in finding both an individual right, separate and unrealted to militia service, and said state/federal jusrisdiction did not matter. Although the decision did not preclude which "infringemnts" may stand, it struck down some very big ones; locks, safes and "keeping in a disabled state", not distinguishing between handgun, shotgun and rifle and not allowing special LEO "exception" provisions.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #1198
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Then what would be the point of even having a militia since, in my opinion, militias are intended to protect us from congress and the likes.

    Just sayin'.....
    That would be a question for those who wrote that language into the Constitution. All I was asked to is to cite it as being part of that document which allows for regulation or power in the area of firearms.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #1199
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Each court case is different, so each judge's decision is different, yet limitted to the issue(s) of that law/situation. You will note that Heller "stepped on" or overrode many prior SCOTUS decisions in finding both an individual right, separate and unrealted to militia service, and said state/federal jusrisdiction did not matter. Although the decision did not preclude which "infringemnts" may stand, it struck down some very big ones; locks, safes and "keeping in a disabled state", not distinguishing between handguh, shotgun and pistol and not allowing special LEO "exception" provisions.
    And what you just wrote proves that I am correct. There indeed can be what some consider as incremental encroachments that insist constitute the right has been INFRINGED but that has not been the agreement of many many courts and justices over our long history. Thus, the idea that some have pushed here that the meaning of INFRINGED is something as small as HINDER is ridiculous and not supported by reality.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #1200
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And what you just wrote proves that I am correct. There indeed can be what some consider as incremental encroachments that insist constitute the right has been INFRINGED but that has not been the agreement of many many courts and justices over our long history. Thus, the idea that some have pushed here that the meaning of INFRINGED is something as small as HINDER is ridiculous and not supported by reality.
    Reality, like the Constitution, is in the eye of the bee holder, in our system of gov't that is ultimately the majority of our current crew of nine robed umpires that may, or may not, honor any particular challenge flag thown. So you win (actually only force a draw) in all arguments by simply saying "maybe" the law says what I think the law says, or "maybe" it says what you want it to say. I am done with you.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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