View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1151
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I don't have to "prove" anything. But context can tell a lot of what is meant by a particular word.

    At the time of the writing of the Constitution, the US and the framers just finishes, successfully, a revolution. They also knew that we were both militarily weak and our ability to defend the nation was based upon a militia concept where all adult male citizens participated with privately owned firearms. Any Infringement, by whatever definition you want to use, would weaken the Nations ability to defend itself.

    So in context with the times and conditions at the time of the writing of the Constitution, the Founding fathers clearly intended "shall not be infringed" to mean it shall not be changed in anyway whatsoever that would weaken the peoples ability to act effectively as a militia when needed.

    I also don't believe that our founding fathers ever intended that the "militia" concept would be taken away from the citizens.
    They did not use those words. They did not say what you wanted them to say. Your problem is not with me but with what they failed to do.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #1152
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No - it is the one which is little used.

    Now all you have to do is show us that the founders intentionally and purposely ignored the far more common use of the term INFRINGED that was known to the people of its time and commonly used in favor of an obscure and little used meaning which totally changes the meaning of the commonly used term..
    They used the the word infringed, which means to hinder.

    Perhaps you can provide some substantiation for your opinion regarding the law. Contemporaneous sources, constitutional scholars? Anything other than your own personal opinion?

  3. #1153
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    They used the the word infringed, which means to hinder.

    Perhaps you can provide some substantiation for your opinion regarding the law. Contemporaneous sources, constitutional scholars? Anything other than your own personal opinion?
    Ample evidence was provided for you. See posts
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    Its all there for you just as it was hours ago when you ignored it the first time. And the second time. And the third time. And so on and so on and so on where you end up still ignoring it even now.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #1154
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Ample evidence was provided for you. See posts
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    Its all there for you just as it was hours ago when you ignored it the first time. And the second time. And the third time. And so on and so on and so on where you end up still ignoring it even now.
    So you have no evidence at all from contemporaneous sources or from any constitutional scholars to back up your ludicrous interpretation of the second amendment?

    I wonder whether anyone at all, besides for you, believes that the word infringed doesn't mean to hinder or encroach upon. Anyone?

  5. #1155
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So now all you have to do is to provide ample verifiable evidence that the founders intentionally and purposely passed up the conventional and widely used meaning in favor of an obscure and little used meaning and knowingly used that even though it gave the opposite take on their intent.

    I wish you luck with that.

    Of course, it brings up the more obvious question as to why you and others would willingly focus on that tiny little part of a little used definition and pass up the greater 95% of the larger definition.

    Can you explain why you would do that?
    it means the definition was different then,much like regulated then meant completely different than now.and further there are the federalist papers which were published and shown the dabatesand meanings of the bill ofrights,you clearly have been defeated by all logic and the founing fathers arguments,now you are simply ikn a state of denialselectively running around evidence you hate and choosing to use circular logic despite it dissagreesing with you in order to prolong a debate you lost long ago.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

  6. #1156
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    it means the definition was different then,much like regulated then meant completely different than now.and further there are the federalist papers which were published and shown the dabatesand meanings of the bill ofrights,you clearly have been defeated by all logic and the founing fathers arguments,now you are simply ikn a state of denialselectively running around evidence you hate and choosing to use circular logic despite it dissagreesing with you in order to prolong a debate you lost long ago.
    "A debate you lost long ago." Very well said indeed.

  7. #1157
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It alone proves that there is language there which proves you wrong. First you claim there is not language then you carp and moan about the language that is there that was used to do what you claim cannot be done because there is no language to do it.


    Make up your mind so we know what position you are taking here.

    You might not like Article I , Section 8 - but thats really irrelevant to what reality is. It is part of the Constitution and if you do not like it - that is your right but it is irrelevant.
    You and others who crave more government pretend it gives the government the power to do anything you want. I disagree and so does the tenth amendment

  8. #1158
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You and others who crave more government pretend it gives the government the power to do anything you want. I disagree and so does the tenth amendment
    The states, when they established their compact between themselves, never gave the federal government any power to deny the right of any citizen of any state to keep and bear arms. The collectivist azzholes neglect to address that fact when they wish to impose their tyranny on upon the citizens of other states.

  9. #1159
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So you have no evidence at all from contemporaneous sources or from any constitutional scholars to back up your ludicrous interpretation of the second amendment?

    I wonder whether anyone at all, besides for you, believes that the word infringed doesn't mean to hinder or encroach upon. Anyone?
    Ample evidence was provided for you. See posts
    1111
    1122
    1124
    1133
    1136
    1139
    1145
    1148

    Its all there for you just as it was hours ago when you ignored it the first time. And the second time. And the third time. And so on and so on and so on where you end up still ignoring it even now.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #1160
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    it means the definition was different then,much like regulated then meant completely different than now.and further there are the federalist papers which were published and shown the dabatesand meanings of the bill ofrights,you clearly have been defeated by all logic and the founing fathers arguments,now you are simply ikn a state of denialselectively running around evidence you hate and choosing to use circular logic despite it dissagreesing with you in order to prolong a debate you lost long ago.
    If you feel it is important, please feel free to present any of that. I will read it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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