View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
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    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1121
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    My argument is NOT based on SCOTUS decisions.
    Thankfully, our Constitutional law, and system of government still is.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Sorry. These are the definitions out of your old timey dictionary.

    Infringe is defined as hinder.

    Hinder is defined as impeding or retarding.

    These are incremental, and they are in the old dictionary you cited.

    Your argument is kaputt.
    Your argument is a fraud and blatantly dishonest. As I have already told you - and as you conventiently pretend to ignore - you ignore definition #1 - the most common usage of the time and its definitive and final language as to what INFRINGE means. You then compound your intellectual fraud by continuing to ignore definition #2. And even when you pick the third least used definition - your commit intellectual fraud by attempting to ignore the words before the word 'hinder"..... DESTROY.

    So tell us Federalist - why would you ignore all of definition 1, all of definition 2 and the first half of the least used definition and only focus on what you think one word means?

    Why would you do that?
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-25-12 at 12:34 PM.
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Your definition says infringe means to hinder.
    Indeed it does and with that the entire premise of the anti gun argument based on a claim that only bans = infringements goes spinning down the porcelain pipe on its way to cesspool where other crappy arguments end up

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Indeed it does and with that the entire premise of the anti gun argument based on a claim that only bans = infringements goes spinning down the porcelain pipe on its way to cesspool where other crappy arguments end up
    Only if one intentionally ignores the complete and utter finality of the most common used term at the time - definition #1 with its definitive words.

    1. To break, as contracts; to violate, either positively by contravention, or negatively by non-fulfillment or neglect of performance. A prince or a private person infringes an agreement or covenant by neglecting to perform its conditions, as well as by doing what is stipulated not to be done.
    And then only if one compounds that error of intellectual fraud by then ignoring the second most common usage of the term at the time - #2 with its definitive words.


    2. To break; to violate; to transgress; to neglect to fulfill or obey; as, to infringe a law.
    And then only if one even further decides to become even ore egregious in their commission of intellectual fraud and ignore the first half of the term that precedes the word HINDER which is TO DESTROY.


    3. To destroy or hinder; as, to infringe efficacy. [Little used.]

    And then to compound this grand felony of high intellectual fraud, one must conveniently ignore the phrase placed in the brackets after that definition #3

    [Little used.]
    Yes, Turtle, you mention a cesspool and it would seem the perfect resting place for anyone attempting to do what I just described here.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-25-12 at 12:43 PM.
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  5. #1125
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Only if one intentionally ignores the complete and utter finality of the most common used term at the time - definition #1 with its definitive words.
    And then only if one compounds that error of intellectual fraud by then ignoring the second most common usage of the term at the time - #2 with its definitive words.
    And then only if one even further decides to become even ore egregious in their commission of intellectual fraud and ignore the first half of the term that precedes the word HINDER which is TO DESTROY.
    so you have changed from saying infringe means to ban to merely claiming ban was the more popular definition. remind me where there is any support for the argument that the federal government was actually delegated the power to HINDER our right to KBA?

    This sort of semantic argument that continually equivocates and evades demonstrates what I have said all along for dozens of years. Those who start off with the premise that guns should be severely restricted or controlled by the all wise mommy dearest government will spend all types of effort working backwards from pretty clear language in an attempt to find a constitutional basis for their nanny state desires

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so you have changed from saying infringe means to ban to merely claiming ban was the more popular definition. remind me where there is any support for the argument that the federal government was actually delegated the power to HINDER our right to KBA?

    This sort of semantic argument that continually equivocates and evades demonstrates what I have said all along for dozens of years. Those who start off with the premise that guns should be severely restricted or controlled by the all wise mommy dearest government will spend all types of effort working backwards from pretty clear language in an attempt to find a constitutional basis for their nanny state desires
    But your screed utterly fails since I have never expressed support for such bans.

    All I am trying to do is to educate people on American History and the meaning of words as used in American History.

    The rest of what you accuse me of seems to be the creation of your own imagination.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But your screed utterly fails since I have never expressed support for such bans.

    All I am trying to do is to educate people on American History and the meaning of words as used in American History.

    The rest of what you accuse me of seems to be the creation of your own imagination.
    by constantly claiming that the other definitions are not proper and by also suggesting that all the schemes the dem party is mouthing to hassle honest gun owners clearly demonstrate to most of us that you are supporting all sorts of restrictions on gun owners. Be it constantly complaining about the NRA and gun owners you have demonstrated what side you are on.

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your argument is a fraud and blatantly dishonest. As I have already told you - and as you conventiently pretend to ignore - you ignore definition #1 - the most common usage of the time and its definitive and final language as to what INFRINGE means. You then compound your intellectual fraud by continuing to ignore definition #2. And even when you pick the third least used definition - your commit intellectual fraud by attempting to ignore the words before the word 'hinder"..... DESTROY.

    So tell us Federalist - why would you ignore all of definition 1, all of definition 2 and the first half of the least used definition and only focus on what you think one word means?

    Why would you do that?
    Those are two possible definitions. There is a third as well. What evidence do you have that those, and not the third, are what the founders meant?

  9. #1129
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    by constantly claiming that the other definitions are not proper and by also suggesting that all the schemes the dem party is mouthing to hassle honest gun owners clearly demonstrate to most of us that you are supporting all sorts of restrictions on gun owners. Be it constantly complaining about the NRA and gun owners you have demonstrated what side you are on.
    I have NEVER suggested that any definition from the time period in discussion was not proper. You are simply wrong about that.

    The rest of your post is simply political carping and self induced paranoia about what you believe based on your own political leanings. You certainly have a right to those beliefs, but in the end, they are simply extremist beliefs.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Indeed it does and with that the entire premise of the anti gun argument based on a claim that only bans = infringements goes spinning down the porcelain pipe on its way to cesspool where other crappy arguments end up
    Yes indeed. Just like yesterday's digested baloney.

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