View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1111
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Your definition says infringe means to hinder.
    here is the definition - not MINE but the 1828 Websters

    infringe

    INFRINGE, v.t. infrinj'. [L. infringo; in and frango,to break. See Break.]

    1. To break, as contracts; to violate, either positively by contravention, or negatively by non-fulfillment or neglect of performance. A prince or a private person infringes an agreement or covenant by neglecting to perform its conditions, as well as by doing what is stipulated not to be done.
    2. To break; to violate; to transgress; to neglect to fulfill or obey; as, to infringe a law.
    3. To destroy or hinder; as, to infringe efficacy. [Little used.]

    You ignore the most common usage - #1 -. You ignore the words TO BREAK..... TO VIOLATE ..... CONTRAVENTION ......
    You ignore the second most common usage - #2 . You ignore the words TO BREAK .... TO VIOLATE .... TO TRANSGRESS ..... TO NEGLECT TO FULFILL.
    YOu focus in on only part of definition #3 - the word HINDER while you ignore the words tha precede it in the same thought ... TO DESTROY AND HINDER clearly indicating that it is the act of destruction that leads to the act of HINDER(ing) the right.

    And perhaps you should use the same 1928 Webster's Dictionary to discover the meaning of HINDER?

    HINDER, a. comp. of hind. That is in a position contrary to that of the head or fore part; designating the part which follows; as the hinder part of a wagon; the hinder part of a ship, or the stern. Acts 27.
    CONTRARY TO THAT....... not at all the incrementalist meaning of today.

    Yet again, some want to attach modern meanings to words which did not have those meanings at the time of the era of the adoption of the amendment.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #1112
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    here is the definition - not MINE but the 1828 Websters



    You ignore the most common usage - #1 -. You ignore the words TO BREAK..... TO VIOLATE ..... CONTRAVENTION ......
    You ignore the second most common usage - #2 . You ignore the words TO BREAK .... TO VIOLATE .... TO TRANSGRESS ..... TO NEGLECT TO FULFILL.
    YOu focus in on only part of definition #3 - the word HINDER while you ignore the words tha precede it in the same thought ... TO DESTROY AND HINDER clearly indicating that it is the act of destruction that leads to the act of HINDER(ing) the right.

    And perhaps you should use the same 1928 Webster's Dictionary to discover the meaning of HINDER?



    CONTRARY TO THAT....... not at all the incrementalist meaning of today.

    Yet again, some want to attach modern meanings to words which did not have those meanings at the time of the era of the adoption of the amendment.
    Your normal, twisted blather cannot change the meaning of "the right of the people to keep and bear" so you try to work the fringes. "Arms" now means whatever you say it does. "Infringe" now means that limitation is fine, if only kept a mere milimeter short of a complete ban. In short, you have tossed out selected words with clear meaning and now try to distort "historic" meanings to morph the law of the land more to your liking.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #1113
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    here is the definition - not MINE but the 1828 Websters



    You ignore the most common usage - #1 -. You ignore the words TO BREAK..... TO VIOLATE ..... CONTRAVENTION ......
    You ignore the second most common usage - #2 . You ignore the words TO BREAK .... TO VIOLATE .... TO TRANSGRESS ..... TO NEGLECT TO FULFILL.
    YOu focus in on only part of definition #3 - the word HINDER while you ignore the words tha precede it in the same thought ... TO DESTROY AND HINDER clearly indicating that it is the act of destruction that leads to the act of HINDER(ing) the right.

    And perhaps you should use the same 1928 Webster's Dictionary to discover the meaning of HINDER?



    CONTRARY TO THAT....... not at all the incrementalist meaning of today.

    Yet again, some want to attach modern meanings to words which did not have those meanings at the time of the era of the adoption of the amendment.
    Sorry, but according to the same dictionary you provided, hinder means to stop, impede, obstruct or retard.

    hindered - HIN'DERED, pp. Stopped; impeded; obstructed; retarded.

    If you'd like to provide evidence from contemporaneous sources that your twisted definition of infringe is what the founders intended, please feel free to do so.

  4. #1114
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Your normal, twisted blather cannot change the meaning of "the right of the people to keep and bear" so you try to work the fringes. "Arms" now means whatever you say it does. "Infringe" now means that limitation is fine, if only kept a mere milimeter short of a complete ban. In short, you have tossed out selected words with clear meaning and now try to distort "historic" meanings to morph the law of the land more to your liking.
    I do NOT write dictionary definitions. I find it especially difficult to travel back into time of the year 1828 and write the Websters' definition provided. Attacking me does not change the 1828 Webster's meaning of the words. No matter how much you wish it otherwise.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Sorry, but according to the same dictionary you provided, hinder means to stop, impede, obstruct or retard.

    hindered - HIN'DERED, pp. Stopped; impeded; obstructed; retarded.

    If you'd like to provide evidence from contemporaneous sources that your twisted definition of infringe is what the founders intended, please feel free to do so.
    Yes. And that is completely and 100% consistent with the definitive destructive finality of what was presented in the definition of INFRINGED.

    Thank you for providing even more evidence supporting my viewpoint. It is appreciated.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #1116
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yes. And that is completely and 100% consistent with the definitive destructive finality of what was presented in the definition of INFRINGED.

    Thank you for providing even more evidence supporting my viewpoint. It is appreciated.
    Do you know what impede and retard mean? They are incremental.

    Infringe means to hinder. Hinder means to impede or retard.

    Your argument is in ruins.

    How are you coming along with your evidence that your twisted definition is what the founders intended?
    Last edited by Federalist; 12-25-12 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #1117
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I do NOT write dictionary definitions. I find it especially difficult to travel back into time of the year 1828 and write the Websters' definition provided. Attacking me does not change the 1828 Webster's meaning of the words. No matter how much you wish it otherwise.
    Fotunately, you also do not write SCOTUS opinions, or even seem to read them very well. The Heller case greatly limitted, yet did not preclude, what restrictions or "infringements" may be applied. E.g. keeping guns locked up, disassembled or trigger locked was struck down, as was restricting handguns to those owned before 1975 or only by LEOs, yet no further clue, or definition, was offered as to what is a "reasonable restriction" vs. "infringement". No SCOTUS judge ever wishes to be overbroad, so they stick to the specific arguments made (and the law as written) in a specific case appealed to them. The court has finally held that this "right of the people" is not related to any militia ties at all or based on whether residing in state vs. federalyl controlled property. Things are crawling right along.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #1118
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Do you know what impede and retard mean? They are incremental.

    Infringe means to hinder. Hinder means to impede or retard.

    Your argument is in ruins.

    How are you coming along with your evidence that your twisted definition is what the founders intended?
    Again, you are a product of the modern age and insist on using modern meanings to terms which have changed over the centuries. What makes this so egregious is that you have been educated on this but you persist in doing it for ideological and political reasons.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #1119
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Fotunately, you also do not write SCOTUS opinions, or even seem to read them very well. The Heller case greatly limitted, yet did not preclude, what restrictions or "infringements" may be applied. E.g. keeping guns locked up, disassembled or trigger locked was struck down, as was restricting handguns to those owned before 1975 or only by LEOs, yet no further clue, or definition, was offered as to what is a "reasonable restriction" vs. "infringement". No SCOTUS judge ever wishes to be overbroad, so they stick to the specific arguments made (and the law as written) in a specific case appealed to them. The court has finally held that this "right of the people" is not related to any militia ties at all or based on whether residing in state vs. federalyl controlled property. Things are crawling right along.
    My argument is NOT based on SCOTUS decisions.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again, you are a product of the modern age and insist on using modern meanings to terms which have changed over the centuries. What makes this so egregious is that you have been educated on this but you persist in doing it for ideological and political reasons.
    Sorry. These are the definitions out of your old timey dictionary.

    Infringe is defined as hinder.

    Hinder is defined as impeding or retarding.

    These are incremental, and they are in the old dictionary you cited.

    Your argument is kaputt.

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