View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1081
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, in most of the rest of the industrialized world. Have you not seen the statistics that show that?
    I for one understand the statistics. But what some seem to be forgetting is that they had different laws from the start and they added onto them. Since in the US you are starting from a different base level, what laws work in other countries will not necessarily have the same affect here.

    In those societies, even before the advent of the gun, swords were restricted in ownership, usually to a "Knight" Class and Noble Classes. When guns came into being, they applied the same restrictions upon them. When dealing with the issue of guns, you have to understand that the other countries have always had some restrictions on the ownership of "weapons" while the US has had very little restrictions upon ownership of "weapons".

    The US is unique in it's attitudes and laws governing ownership of "weapons". Therefore, what works elsewhere will not necessarily work here. Because of our uniqueness in the issue, we have to seek a unique path and solution on the issue.
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  2. #1082
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    Be interested to see someone show that what happened in Newtown would not have happened if the shooter had a Rem M870 with a 5-rd tube instead of an AR.
    I couldn't shoot an AR for squat. An 870? That is my prefered hunting weapon, and I am incredibly accurate with it (having won shooting competitions).

    Most hoplophobes fear guns - especially 'assault weapons' - because they look scary.
    They then believe their irrational respose to someting that scares them is a sound argument for the banning of same.
    Yep. My point exactly. Just because it looks scary doesn't mean it is. The same concept goes for the AK47. How many of Americans see that as the bad guy gun? That had nothing to do with the abilities of the rifle, but because of who has carried them for 50 years. I mean the IRA gun of choice was the AR15. I am sure the Brits don't have a great impression of the gun.

    At any rate...I am afraid of knives. I don't like them and they scare me because I know the chances of being cut by one in a hand to hand situation.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  3. #1083
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I couldn't shoot an AR for squat. An 870? That is my prefered hunting weapon, and I am incredibly accurate with it (having won shooting competitions).



    Yep. My point exactly. Just because it looks scary doesn't mean it is. The same concept goes for the AK47. How many of Americans see that as the bad guy gun? That had nothing to do with the abilities of the rifle, but because of who has carried them for 50 years. I mean the IRA gun of choice was the AR15. I am sure the Brits don't have a great impression of the gun.

    At any rate...I am afraid of knives. I don't like them and they scare me because I know the chances of being cut by one in a hand to hand situation.


    Good post. It amazes me that people don't seem to understand they are comparing totally different cultures, with totally different history, traditions, customs, norms, laws and populations.

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  4. #1084
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, in most of the rest of the industrialized world. Have you not seen the statistics that show that?
    Those statistics are irrelevant. They aren't "proof" of anything. Different nations of the "industrialized world" have far different societal factors. We have a far higher number of firearms, and we have for quite a long time. We are also much larger in population than most. We have a different governmental system, and our culture is vastly different. If you honestly think that ALL of these factors DON'T impact "violence" stats or "mass shooter" stats you are kidding yourself.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  5. #1085
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    Re: Gun Control

    -QUOTE=Goshin;1061283795]Good post. It amazes me that people don't seem to understand they are comparing totally different cultures, with totally different history, traditions, customs, norms, laws and populations.[/QUOTE]

    You think liberals of ALL people would understand that? I mean ignoring that is like going back to euginics again. It ignores all the scientific progress we have made, and the strides we have made to understand things like socio economic status. I mean if we were to do what the liberals do with gun crime...then all black people are drug addicts and bad parents and hookers. I mean that is SO far from accurate because of our understanding of socioeconomics, and things like access to better jobs etc. I mean how can they ignore that for one issue and apply it to another?

    Oh...hypocrits. That is why.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  6. #1086
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    Re: Gun Control

    [QUOTE=haymarket;1061283348]
    I have repeatedly. I suspect that true believers only want to know one of two things: do you prostrate yourself before the same altar and worship the same gods as I do? Or not? Real life complications such as nuance of position escape them, confuse them, frustrate them and cause them to become angry. So when they cannot place someone in a neat little compartment that their limited mind can handle, they become irritable and attack what escapes their limited understanding.
    Sounds like the rantings of delusional paranoia.

    It is sad but it is simply part of life.
    What is sad is your dishonesty with everyone on the board and your position.

    My position on the Second Amendment has always been crystal clear. I am a strong supporter of the US Constitution and that includes the Second Amendment. You ask me what does it "allow US citizens"? I imagine many would object to the your use of the word allow. However, going with you in spirit, I would state does not allow anything specifically other than one important protection: it prevents the federal government from having your right to keep an bear arms INFRINGED by them.
    The word "allow" was put in that post specifically for you because you seem to have this delusion that the Constitution is interpreted using YOUR odd definition of terms and phrases and your weird stance that the Constitution states that a citizen may only have ONE firearm. Unfortunately for you, the Constitution states NO such thing. It says that citizens have the right to bear ARMS, without infringement of the government.

    It's unfortunate that you don't understand the time period, what was happening in our country and how important preventing tyranny was to our founders. Also, as I've stated before, in most states back when the Second Amendment took effect, it was a DUTY to be armed. The states EXPECTED citizens to be armed and ready at a moment's notice. You really should brush up on your history.

    As you well know because you participated in it, we have had an exhaustive and most thorough discussion about what that word means. And using authoritative sources from the era of the writing and adoption of the Amendment that are expert in the meaning and usage of words, I have provided you and the board with a very exact meaning of the word INFRINGED.
    Oh no, you're the ONLY one who agreed to your own definition of the word which, unfortunately for you, does NOT fit what the Second Amendment stood for in historical times.

    It means that the government cannot defeat, break, contravene or destroy your right.
    BTW, here is the definition of "infringe" from a constitutional dictionary.

    infringe vb [Latin infringere] 1: violate, transgress 2: encroach, trespass Source: NMW

    That is what the second amendment "allows US citizens"..... as you put it.
    Says you but fortunately you are mistaken.

  7. #1087
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    Re: Gun Control

    [QUOTE=ChrisL;1061283889]
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post




    Says you but fortunately you are mistaken.
    Its funny every time we have to discuss the definition that you provided for us and then came back to bite you in the posterior taking out a major chunk of credibility. So now you spend post after post attacking me and lying about what happened before.
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post

    Its funny every time we have to discuss the definition that you provided for us and then came back to bite you in the posterior taking out a major chunk of credibility. So now you spend post after post attacking me and lying about what happened before.
    The definition I just provided is a definition taken out of a constitutional dictionary. It is a more accurate definition. Too bad that you can't CHOOSE the definition that best suits your agenda of limiting people's rights.

    It's pretty sad that people like you want the government to have COMPLETE unmitigated control over the people. That is NOT what the founding fathers intended.

    Ohhhhh. Boo freaking hoo.

  9. #1089
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The definition I just provided is a definition taken out of a constitutional dictionary. It is a more accurate definition. Too bad that you can't CHOOSE the definition that best suits your agenda of limiting people's rights.
    Here it is for you. Here it is found by you. Here it is posted by you. Here it is agreed to by you. Here it is used by you. Here is it defended by you.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-co...-194-a-31.html

    You selected the definition in our long debate.

    You picked the definition from Meriam Webster.

    You were responsible for it and then it bit you in the butt and you have never gotten over the shame of it and have been trying to atone for your mistake to your fellow true believers in the gun culture ever since. The only problem is that you did not make a mistake. The definition you proved was fine and dandy. And it proved me correct and you wrong.

    Thank you and Merry Christmas.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-24-12 at 02:41 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  10. #1090
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    Re: Gun Control

    [QUOTE=haymarket;1061284076]
    Here it is for you. Here it is found by you. Here it is posted by you. Here it is agreed to by you. Here it is used by you. Here is it defended by you.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-co...-194-a-31.html

    You selected the definition in our long debate.

    You picked the definition from Meriam Webster.
    You must be delusional. I am not a constitutional expert and I only chose a definition off the internet and apparently I was wrong.



    You were responsible for it and then it bit you in the butt and you have never gotten over the shame of it and have been trying to atone for your mistake to your fellow true believers in the gun culture ever since. The only problem is that you did not make a mistake. The definition you proved was fine and dandy. And it proved me correct and you wrong.
    Since I'm not a constitutional lawyer or expert, you cannot hold me responsible for that. If YOU were a honest man, you would admit to the err of your ways. This is why I could never respect you or any of your opinions on any topic. You are one of the MOST dishonest people I have ever had the misfortune to come across. Really, you should be ASHAMED of yourself for the way you conduct yourself in these debates. It is truly shameful and really only makes you look bad and completely dishonest.

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