View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1061
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Ironic that you talk about ignorance, since on the one hand the discussion involved 1st generation AR-15's, which I am sure with your vast knowledge of all and everything realize that they were fully auto and are owned privately.....along with the knowledge that anyone with a $10.00 manual, a jig, some basic tools and a few legal parts can convert a modern AR-15 to fully automatic. Heck, you can even install a slide-fire stock and go the low-tech path to "full auto" conversion.

    But...I'm sure you knew all that anyway.....being super knowledgeable and all.
    idiocy alert, you had to have a class three tax stamp to own real m16s. I won't get into whether Gene Stoner's first prototypes at the division known as armalite were available to the public prior to the USAF (the first government buyer) ordering them and the weapon getting the M16 terminology.

    and guess what, those who have the ability to convert a AR 15 (which is much harder than the hysterics claim plus its a ten year federal felony) to fully automatic safely (you can put an extended firing pin in and it makes the weapon and uncontrollable pseudo open bolt weapon that often blows the bolt out the side or causes the case to rupture for reasons I won't bore you with) have the ability to build machine guns. Ever heard of a sten gun or a M2 grease gun? ever heard of a bridgeport lathe? well my late father knew how to run a machine shop and when he was at sea in WWII they came up with some pretty effective SMGs in the battleship's machine shop.

  2. #1062
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ever heard of a bridgeport lathe? well my late father knew how to run a machine shop and when he was at sea in WWII they came up with some pretty effective SMGs in the battleship's machine shop.
    Uh...my point exactly. The coversion is not rocket science.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 12-24-12 at 01:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #1063
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Ironic that you talk about ignorance, since on the one hand the discussion involved 1st generation AR-15's, which I am sure with your vast knowledge of all and everything realize that they were fully auto…
    Sometimes, it seems there just aren't enough of these available:
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #1064
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Uh...my point exactly. This is not rocket science.
    yeah what it shows is that someone who is willing to kill people isn't going to worry about getting busted for an illegally made machine gun

    people who would never think of making an illegal machine gun are generally those of us who don't shoot up schools or banks

    its already highly illegal to USE a machine gun in any way that harms another

  5. #1065
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah what it shows is that someone who is willing to kill people isn't going to worry about getting busted for an illegally made machine gun

    people who would never think of making an illegal machine gun are generally those of us who don't shoot up schools or banks

    its already highly illegal to USE a machine gun in any way that harms another
    No kidding....but that wasn't the point.

    And what is really funny is how you seem to now make argument about the difficulty of access....when previously you were arguing for the legal right to possess said weapons.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #1066
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No kidding....but that wasn't the point.

    And what is really funny is how you seem to now make argument about the difficulty of access....when previously you were arguing for the legal right to possess said weapons.
    I have been saying the same thing long before you showed up here-we can debate all day if the second amendment recognizes a right to possess individually deployable weapons that are issued to groups rather than individuals such as mortars or LAWS or strelas but there is not doubt that civilian police weapons which are only to be used for defense of self or others against violent attack, are protected by the amendment for all citizens.

    and since cops use select fire carbines and SMGs we too should be able to get them without significant hassles

    now crew served HMGS-different story since that is not an individually issued weapon that is common to almost all members of the military though I am hard pressed to find where the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT was properly delegated the power to regulate a weapon that when used, does not normally have interstate or international implications

  7. #1067
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Because the 1st Amendment enumerates an individual right, along with the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments and because it is completely and utterly unnecessary for a government with an armed police force and standing military to assert that its right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed because there is no agency capable of restricting its right to do so.

    It's the only logical conclusion.



    Because outdated or not-- and I am firmly in the camp that it is not-- it is the law, and it is a part of the same body of law that protects every other human right and civil liberty that you hold dear. If the government is capable of overturning or violating the 2nd Amendment because it is "outdated", or because it is "necessary", then it is capable of doing so for the aforementioned 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Amendments as well.



    It could be. Our Founding Fathers, at the time that it was written, would have interpreted it exactly that way as it was entirely legal for members of the militia-- such as ourselves-- to own artillery pieces and other purely military armaments. However, legally, the Supreme Court has ruled that for the purposes of "militia", the right for private citizens to keep and bear arms is limited to weapons in common infantry usage.

    Which, of course, means that the current prohibition on automatic weapons is unconstitutional.
    I think if congress declares formal war for homeland defense then well regulated militias subservient to each city of residence should be able to defend with such stuff. 1 person per group with a video camera may even count as well regulated as long as it doesn't appear to be hiding anything.
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  8. #1068
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    Re: Gun Control

    Update from Jon Adler, national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association:

    Dec 24 - Gun safety advocates ready for action
    The Connecticut tragedy brings to light proposals to reduce gun deaths that are years in the making.

    "Adler, national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, had a list of policy changes -- from legislative to regulatory to "tactical" coordination -- at the ready, in detail. He cited, chapter and verse, the law that makes it a misdemeanor to knowingly possess a firearm in a school zone. He wanted that upgraded to a felony."


    One option to strengthen background checks could be to close the so-called gun show loophole, which exempts buyers who purchase firearms from non-licensed sellers, often at gun shows, from going through a check.

    "Individual-to-individual sale is for all intents and purposes not covered under federal law," said Jim Kessler, co-founder of Third Way, a moderate Democratic think tank. Kessler said Congress should act to encourage all gun sellers to transfer weapons responsibly, or face legal consequences.

    "If you're selling a gun to somebody without a background check and that gun is later used by that person in a crime, you're more liable in our view than the bartender who is selling more drinks to a drunk person and handing them keys to their car," Kessler said."


    "Coming from the Thursday meeting with Biden, Adler said he was encouraged that the administration's efforts were not "couched around the simple premise of reinstating the assault ban."

    Gun safety advocates ready for action | The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram
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  9. #1069
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Update from Jon Adler, national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association:

    Dec 24 - Gun safety advocates ready for action
    The Connecticut tragedy brings to light proposals to reduce gun deaths that are years in the making.

    "Adler, national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, had a list of policy changes -- from legislative to regulatory to "tactical" coordination -- at the ready, in detail. He cited, chapter and verse, the law that makes it a misdemeanor to knowingly possess a firearm in a school zone. He wanted that upgraded to a felony."
    It was already illegal in a gun free zone, threatening a mass shooter with a harsher penalty for possession as he is going on a shooting spree?

    Great idea, maybe next they'll try making it illegal to break the law, maybe that will work.

    Oh the naivety...
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  10. #1070
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    It was already illegal in a gun free zone, threatening a mass shooter with a harsher penalty for possession as he is going on a shooting spree?

    Great idea, maybe next they'll try making it illegal to break the law, maybe that will work.

    Oh the naivety...
    I think think the most effective measure will be the one you chose to ignore in the report:

    "One option to strengthen background checks could be to close the so-called gun show loophole, which exempts buyers who purchase firearms from non-licensed sellers, often at gun shows, from going through a check.

    "Individual-to-individual sale is for all intents and purposes not covered under federal law," said Jim Kessler, co-founder of Third Way, a moderate Democratic think tank. Kessler said Congress should act to encourage all gun sellers to transfer weapons responsibly, or face legal consequences.

    "If you're selling a gun to somebody without a background check and that gun is later used by that person in a crime, you're more liable in our view than the bartender who is selling more drinks to a drunk person and handing them keys to their car," Kessler said."
    By Upholding Machine Gun Ban, High Court Makes Country Safer - Sun Sentinel
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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