View Poll Results: Would you support more restrictions on guns if they had the potential to save lives?

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  • Yes

    87 42.65%
  • No

    102 50.00%
  • Others

    15 7.35%
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Thread: Gun Control

  1. #1011
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    IF you'd really like Scalia's take, here's a good example:

    "Justice Breyer moves on to make a broad jurisprudential point: He criticizes us for declining to establish a level of scrutiny for evaluating Second Amendment restrictions. He proposes, explicitly at least, none of the traditionally expressed levels (strict scrutiny, intermediate scrutiny, rational basis), but rather a judge-empowering “interest-balancing inquiry” that “asks whether the statute burdens a protected interest in a way or to an extent that is out of proportion to the statute’s salutary effects upon other important governmental interests.” Post, at 10. After an exhaustive discussion of the arguments for and against gun control, Justice Breyer arrives at his interest-balanced answer: because handgun violence is a problem, because the law is limited to an urban area, and because there were somewhat similar restrictions in the founding period (a false proposition that we have already discussed), the interest-balancing inquiry results in the constitutionality of the handgun ban. QED.
    We know of no other enumerated constitutional right whose core protection has been subjected to a freestanding “interest-balancing” approach. The very enumeration of the right takes out of the hands of government—even the Third Branch of Government—the power to decide on a case-by-case basis whether the right is really worth insisting upon. A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all. Constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them, whether or not future legislatures or (yes) even future judges think that scope too broad. We would not apply an “interest-balancing” approach to the prohibition of a peaceful neo-Nazi march through Skokie. See National Socialist Party of America v. Skokie, 432 U. S. 43 (1977) (per curiam). The First Amendment contains the freedom-of-speech guarantee that the people ratified, which included exceptions for obscenity, libel, and disclosure of state secrets, but not for the expression of extremely unpopular and wrong-headed views. The Second Amendment is no different. Like the First, it is the very product of an interest-balancing by the people—which Justice Breyer would now conduct for them anew. And whatever else it leaves to future evaluation, it surely elevates above all other interests the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home."

    District of Columbia v. Heller - 07-290 (2008) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center


    That case was about handguns. No one is proposing a ban on handguns.

    As Scalia pointed out: "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited," that it is "not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever"
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #1012
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    actually, you are completely wrong, the number of guns per capita is on the decline in the US and homicide rates have declined from the "crack" days of the '90's. There are MANY studies also showing that as gun ownership declines so does the homicide rate.
    Is that legal or illegal gun ownership? No other factors changed in society? If there were other factors in society, how do you relate the two? Has that held true since the financial crash of '08? Has the murder rate dropped to levels we saw prior to 1903?

    What other law or change in society accounts for the change in murder rates immediately following the 1903 Militia Act? Their was a recession going on, but it was both before and after the law. I correlate the two by looking at other factors that might account for such a rapid change, lacking other factors, gun ownership changed by the law would seem to correlate.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  3. #1013
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post

    Can you show me where limiting magazine capacity made a difference?
    Yes, in most of the rest of the industrialized world. Have you not seen the statistics that show that?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #1014
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That case was about handguns. No one is proposing a ban on handguns.

    As Scalia pointed out: "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited," that it is "not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever"
    You know, it doesn't matter how many times you take that out of context, it still doesn't mean what you are implying. And the case was about gun control, particularly hand guns, but gun control over all. His words on the matter (that I quote) are very indicative on his thoughts on the 2nd. You taking one sentence out of context is not an accurate representation.

  5. #1015
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    This is funny, you still are not aware of the discussion and you fail to understand that an AR-15 IS a "machine gun".
    No, a machine gun is a fully automatic weapon. An AR-15 is not fully automatic.

    Maybe you ought to clue yourself into the discussion that is going on around you and participate in a full manner instead of being constantly oblique.
    I am being nothing but straightforward.

  6. #1016
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    When a person can't or refuses to verify a claim, imost certainly does cause their claim to be less valid.
    It's not a claim. I am not party to the mentality you described. I have no need to prove that.

    You are just not following along at all or are playing some other game. If you think you know what the argument we (you, stone, pac) have been having on weaponry really is about, express it.
    It's about "assault" weapons as you're ilk defines them. Which in actuality aren't even assault weapons.

    You have been avoiding the argument....and you still are. Are you going to cry?
    See, this is baiting in addition to personal attacks.

  7. #1017
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No, a machine gun is a fully automatic weapon. An AR-15 is not fully automatic.
    You are correct. He lies.

  8. #1018
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
    Why do advocates conclude that gun ownership is an INDIVIDUAL right?
    Because the Second Amendment explicitly affirms“…the right of the people…”, not a right of the militia, of the United States, or of the several individual states.

    And in context, the entire Bill of Rights is about limits imposed on government, and rights affirmed on behalf of the people. What sense could it possibly make to assume that the Second Amendment is different, in this regard, from the other nine Amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
    How do they justify that this amendment was written in a completely different time and is likely outdated?
    If you think it's outdated, then contact your elected representatives and ask them to begin the process of amending the Constitution to repeal or supersede the Second Amendment. The great men who wrote our Constitution recognized the possibility that it might need to be updated, and included the Amendment process to allow this. Until this process is used to supersede the Second Amendment, the Second Amendment continues to stand as written and ratified.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 12-23-12 at 08:36 PM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
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  9. #1019
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    You know, it doesn't matter how many times you take that out of context, it still doesn't mean what you are implying. And the case was about gun control, particularly hand guns, but gun control over all. His words on the matter (that I quote) are very indicative on his thoughts on the 2nd. You taking one sentence out of context is not an accurate representation.
    It not taken out of context of whether a person has unlimited rights under the 2nd Amendment for any weapon whatsoever. That is exactly what he was addressing.

    Show me legal argument that has been made with a constitutional basis to overturn the ban on assault weapons and hi cap mags that was made during the decade of the 1994 ban.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #1020
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    Re: Gun Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    While assault and rape went up 40% and 20%. Sorry that does not float. I mean a woman being 3 times more likely to be raped in Australia vs the US is just sad.



    Well how about I say it....

    The majority of gun crime comes from minority inner city communities. I know the truth hurts, but that is the problem. Minority on minority crime fueled by the drug trade. I mean when 75%+ of your gun crime comes from that alone, you need to stand up and take notice.

    PS That number is a conservative estimate.
    after columbine NR did a study based on INTERPOL and FBI crime statistics. if you get rid of black drug crime violence, whites in America have a lower rate of gun crime than whites in Europe (continental and or the UK)

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