View Poll Results: Does Free Will Include the Mentally Challenged?

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  • Yes

    13 40.63%
  • No

    5 15.63%
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    6 18.75%
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Thread: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

  1. #81
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    I stand by it. There is nothing that drives them to make that choice but themselves. There are much better solutions to removing them from society, but that still doesn't change the fact that they chose to do it. There needs to be better and earlier screening to find psychological abnormalities.

    You did not state this but it needs to be stated. Violence on television is not a factor. I have watched violence for years, I play video games from time to time, I do not go out and shoot people for fun. There is a distinction between reality and fantasy.
    In this case you can stand by it all you want but you are still probably wrong.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  2. #82
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    garbage utter garbage
    'splain, Lucy....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  3. #83
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Violence everywhere is a factor in some of the anomalous behavior we see. Movies like Hostel I, II, III -- video games -- some sick **** of a cable show called American Horror Stories (or some such) that I turned off a few days ago when it became apparent we were going to watch women be skinned alive. Combine this pervasive violence with children who are sexually or physically abused, who are denied normal love and affection, who have no outlet for the anger they harbor, and we create a powder keg.

    Young children's minds are not fully cooked. They are forming their morals, learning empathy, and all the rest. No one will ever convince me that watching violence and participating in it via video games at a young age is not a part of the problem of these young men who "go postal."
    And over 50 years of research will back you up.l
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  4. #84
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I can think of several neighborhood boys that I watched grow up with that seemed to be disturbed. I was sure that they wouldn't make it to adulthood without seriously injuring themselves or someone else. It wouldn't have surprised me to see one of them in prison. But it didn't happen to those kids. But someone I would least expect to steal, do drugs, go to prison, it did happen to him.
    There are a lot of sick people out there displaying no symptoms.....none whatsoever...
    again this is an issue. As I have said before I will bet credits to navy beans that most of us know in one way or another a sociopathic person or persons. Most are harmless just odd in some of the ways they think.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  5. #85
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    For the record, I think that this thread kind of illustrates the stigma that people with mental illness, disorders and disabilities have to deal with - this idea that they're choosing their behavior as much as those without it are, or at least enough to be held responsible for it. I think what a lot of people don't get about mental illnesses, et al. is that it can, oftentimes, have just as significant an impact, if not more, on "choice" as physical illnesses.

    A person with Parkinson's disease cannot stop his body from moving and nobody would dare chastise him for knocking a glass over at dinner. Imagine having that same kind of lack of control in your mind - the one place where you're supposed to be able to have total control - and then being told by others that that lack of control doesn't exist and that your behavior is all your fault. That attitude is a problem. I'm not saying that nobody with a mental illness, disorder or disability can control how they express what their brain is making them feel or think. Many people can control it, but some cannot and even those who can often have significant barriers to doing so - more than those without such problems.

    Moreover, just because we might stop caring about the causes and explanations for murder and similarly violent acts doesn't mean that those causes and explanations actually go away. It just means that we're ignoring something because we feel like it.
    Don't take this the wrong way but I love you man. Thanks/
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  6. #86
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by LoopyPaladin View Post
    I think that depends what you would classify as mentally challenged, because in my opinion there are varying degrees of it...

    Either way, I think that it's a bit bigoted to say that they have no free will. My opinion is that they have free will, it's just harder to come to a decision, or maybe they're more impulsive due to their disability.
    Right again.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  7. #87
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Again there is absolutely no proof (real) that this person was mentally ill or a psychopath. From all reports he was Autistic or do we equate Psychopath and sociopath with DD's now? ReallY?
    I completely agree with you. And since you have tied my post to the guy in Connecticut, I'll tell you what I think about him sans any facts at all:

    I think he was probably sexually or physically abused as a young child. I believe he was frustrated to the point of madness; perhaps because he was being bullied, or because he couldn't make friends, or because he failed to bond with his mother. I think he was very conflicted about his mother and blamed her for much that was wrong in his life. I believe he felt completely helpless to change or control his life.

    And last Friday morning? He finally took charge.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  8. #88
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    It depends on the degree of consciousness. The less cerebral brain matter a being has, the less free will it has. That being said, even a dog has a certain amount of free will and everyone but God can be said to be "mentally challenged" to some degree or another. Thus, being "mentally challenged" should not excuse us from immoral choices or immoral actions. In regards to the CT massacre, Lanza certainly was exercising some degree of free will and conscious choice, even if he was "mentally challenged."

    Of course, the real question in regards to criminal culpability should be "What degree of threat does the guilty party pose to society, regardless of his state of mental health or mental capacity?"
    And you know he was able to do this how?
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  9. #89
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    -A choice to act on urges that was/is influenced by environmental and genetic influences beyond the person's control.
    Right again
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  10. #90
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    To the bolded: I don't necessarily believe that to be the case. People who have reached the point of homocide/suicide, are not rationalizing at that point. They are so miserable that they are lashing out at others, then destroying what they perceive to be the real problem. They are at the point of extreme rage and anger, as they feel that their life is out of control. I think they are desperate for their discomfort to come to an end.
    Good post. Could not have said it better.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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