View Poll Results: Does Free Will Include the Mentally Challenged?

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  • Yes

    13 40.63%
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    5 15.63%
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Thread: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

  1. #91
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Temporary insanity is just a window into a person that hides their insanity better than others. Hell, my ex has BPD and that is an insanity if ever there was one.
    Insane is a legal term with no analytical or psychiatric meaning.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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  2. #92
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    This is true of everyone. We all have factors outside our control that influence our decisions, but they don't take our decisions away from us.

    If a person is subjected to enough stress/anxiety/depression it most certainly can.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  3. #93
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I think Jack came up with a good line of reasoning... as do you. That is the problem. This is so difficult to understand. This guy objectified the children. I doubt he saw them as people and just as objects. That being said... why kill/destroy them? Why do people kill innocent people and then themselves? Why not just themselves? I can see him shooting his mom. There could be all sorts of real or imagined reasons for that... but little children you have never met? This is the rage you discuss so aptly. Jack's point that they have a plan makes sense to though. Why kill themselves in the end? Because they know they don't want to be caught and/or because they want to be a martyr.
    A low to mid functioning Autistic does not operate on your level. There processes are beyond most peoples understanding. He did what he did to deal with whatever "ghosts" he was plagued with. he may not have seen his actions as wrong in his mind (autistic people do not see others as people) this is not mental illness it just the way it is.

    The mom thing from what I understand was a rage reaction. he probably had no plan but was simply a prisoner of his emotional state at the time, this is quite common. I think Lizzie gave the best explanation as to the rest of it.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  4. #94
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I completely agree with you. And since you have tied my post to the guy in Connecticut, I'll tell you what I think about him sans any facts at all:

    I think he was probably sexually or physically abused as a young child. I believe he was frustrated to the point of madness; perhaps because he was being bullied, or because he couldn't make friends, or because he failed to bond with his mother. I think he was very conflicted about his mother and blamed her for much that was wrong in his life. I believe he felt completely helpless to change or control his life.

    And last Friday morning? He finally took charge.
    I cannot speak to the sexual abuse but I can almost guarentee the rest of it. We are a society that cries for these kids but does damn little to help them in reality. the suicide rate for DD people is 3x the NT population. WHy? three guesses.

    And I would like to change your last statement. His emotions finally took charge. YOu and most NT's have no idea how we are captive to our emotional states. It took me over 30 years to control mine. And you have seen the result when I let loose.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

  5. #95
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    I prefer not to think about these kinds of questions.

    On the other hand, if there is no free will then it doesn't matter

    Seriously, though, I don't think even the most mentally competent person has complete free will. Things such as conscience and desire work together and against each other to prevent us from doing whatever we want. There is also the thought that our responses to things are part of our nature and we cannot respond any other way.

    I think that the existence of psychopathy disproves the Christian God, because that would mean God would be expecting someone incapable of moral reasoning to morally reason.

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  6. #96
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    And you know he was able to do this how?
    Able to do what?... Think?

    He was able to drive to the school. He was able lock and load his weapon. He was able to bypass the school security system.

    Seems to me that this was a thinking animal.
    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

  7. #97
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I see The religious praying at churches and stuff after horrible events like this latest school shooting. They comfort themselves with the idea that "God has a plan". Well, God gave us free will... so the idea that there is a plan kinda makes sense, to a degree. What about the mentally challenged socio-paths that commit crimes like this. Manson, Bundy, this ****tard who killed the beautiful and innocent little children. Can they have free will? They can't, in my opinion. They are ****ed in the head. They can't make rational decisions AT ALL. They don't understand consequences. Many of them lack morals.

    I just wonder because the idea of free will seems to get tossed out the window when it comes to these ****s... so, logically, that shoots a hole in the entire idea that there is ANY free will.

    What say you?
    The mentally challenged have free will like the rest of us do. Partial free will. We have our pre-frontal cortex which helps give rise to independent thought and will, however, any living creature must contend with things like instinct, perceptual difficulties, cognitive bias, cognitive problems of other sorts, etc.

    In other words a person's mind is not a computer which is free of subprocesses shaping and biasing its conscious processes, to results that would not occur if each process was in isolation.

    For example, if I am starving, I am going to have a heck of a time thinking about the deeper mysteries of life, because my body's urges are going to take over and shape my will. People with mental issues have the same constraints, except their constraints lead them to erratic results of one type or another.

  8. #98
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    If a person is subjected to enough stress/anxiety/depression it most certainly can.
    Nope, I don't believe that for a minute.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #99
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I see The religious praying at churches and stuff after horrible events like this latest school shooting. They comfort themselves with the idea that "God has a plan". Well, God gave us free will... so the idea that there is a plan kinda makes sense, to a degree. What about the mentally challenged socio-paths that commit crimes like this. Manson, Bundy, this ****tard who killed the beautiful and innocent little children. Can they have free will? They can't, in my opinion. They are ****ed in the head. They can't make rational decisions AT ALL. They don't understand consequences. Many of them lack morals.

    I just wonder because the idea of free will seems to get tossed out the window when it comes to these ****s... so, logically, that shoots a hole in the entire idea that there is ANY free will.

    What say you?
    Yes, they have free will, BUT their judgment and ability to make good decisions are impaired. So the decisions they make are equally impaired.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  10. #100
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    Re: Do The Mentally Challenged Have Free Will??

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I completely agree with you. And since you have tied my post to the guy in Connecticut, I'll tell you what I think about him sans any facts at all:

    I think he was probably sexually or physically abused as a young child. I believe he was frustrated to the point of madness; perhaps because he was being bullied, or because he couldn't make friends, or because he failed to bond with his mother. I think he was very conflicted about his mother and blamed her for much that was wrong in his life. I believe he felt completely helpless to change or control his life.

    And last Friday morning? He finally took charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    To the bolded: I don't necessarily believe that to be the case. People who have reached the point of homocide/suicide, are not rationalizing at that point. They are so miserable that they are lashing out at others, then destroying what they perceive to be the real problem. They are at the point of extreme rage and anger, as they feel that their life is out of control. I think they are desperate for their discomfort to come to an end.
    Exactly. It's about a lack of control. And it's about being disconnected from others. People need to feel like they are connected in someway to those around them. If they feel belittled, unappreciated or unimportant, or worse still - bullied, they usually lash out. Sometimes suicide is so terrifying to some that they have to kill others first in order to push themselves over the edge. It's selfish and horrible, but isolation does that to people.

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