View Poll Results: How to reduce gun related violence

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  • Tighter restrictions

    21 25.93%
  • Ban Guns (repeal the second amendment)

    4 4.94%
  • Allow for the wider use of guns for self protection

    34 41.98%
  • Other (explain)

    22 27.16%
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Thread: In light of today's events

  1. #61
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    As you all have certainly heard there was ANOTHER mass shooting, this time at a elementary school, killing at least 27. This is just one of numerous examples of gun related violence in the news recently. As with any other shooting, this raises the question of how to prevent the violence. Please share your ideas on how to prevent another major incident like this.

    Ps- I would like to express my sadness and deep sorrow about this incident and my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.
    You aren't going to prevent another incident. The entire concept of using the power of the state to prevent bad behavior is a pipe dream. It can't work.

    The best we, as a society, can do to reduce the likelihood of this kind of thing happening is to start encouraging personal responsibility and making sure that consequences for bad behavior are both tendered and enforced.

    Look at this mess....millions of people blaming guns for the shooting or blaming lax gun laws or blaming hate speech or whatever. The fact of the matter is that the person that should get the blame is the shooter and anybody that helped him. It's HIS fault that these kids got shot and not the fault of the 2nd amendment or the NRA or anyone else. It was HIM....just him.

    No sane person wants to see a tragedy like this occur. No sane person thinks that it's a good thing that it did happen but to hold millions upon millions of responsible, law abiding people responsible (even indirectly) for this kind of thing is unconscionable.

    Let me ask this question...if we are to cede all responsibility for our safety to the state and the state lets us down then who are we supposed to turn to? Who will protect us when we have taken away all means to protect ourselves and our "benefactor" either can't or won't protect us?

  2. #62
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Only three things can be done to prevent tragedies like these:

    1. We need adequate means of identifying and treating people with mental illness.
    2. We need more good people with guns. Too many of these shootings occur in Gun Free (Target Rich) zones, that the criminal thrives on. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, either concealed carrying or law enforcement. We need armed teachers, students on college campuses, and armed guards to protect our children.
    3. More security. Guarded limited access during school hours, with surveillance, alerts and training/preparations.

    Restricting the law abiding will accomplish nothing but shifting the balance of power further in favor of the criminal, leaving fewer good people with guns compared to those who don't obey such disarming laws or any other.
    Have you got any 'stats' for where, and how often, these 'good guys' with guns intervene?

    Paul
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  3. #63
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    It was interesting this morning when I turned on CNN. They literally spent 10 minutes talking about the assault rifle that was found in the trunk of the car. It wasn't even used. Might as well talk about the nearest M1 Abrams tank at the National Guard armory too, since it was utilized just as much.
    He obviously (at some point) had an intention of using the assault rifle, or why put it in the car?

    Paul
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  4. #64
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    Re: In light of today's events

    [QUOTE=Lutherf;1061254116]
    Look at this mess....millions of people blaming guns for the shooting or blaming lax gun laws or blaming hate speech or whatever. The fact of the matter is that the person that should get the blame is the shooter and anybody that helped him. It's HIS fault that these kids got shot and not the fault of the 2nd amendment or the NRA or anyone else. It was HIM....just him.
    And societal conditions play NO part?

    Paul
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  5. #65
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    And societal conditions play NO part?

    Paul
    Societal conditions can influence the decisions that one makes but, ultimately, the decision regarding how to respond to those influences lies with the individual.

    Let's say that this shooter was locked in his basement for 10 years and tortured by his mother. His choice to shoot her would likely have been influenced by his social conditioning and it would have been understandable. His further decision to go to the school and shoot the kids might also be understandable but it definitely wouldn't be acceptable.

  6. #66
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I would hope someone comes up with a plan to train and arm the school staff. At least a designated response team within schools. Police can't be everywhere, and static security systems fail. Whatever gun controls put in place in America won't stop a psycho like we saw today from inflicted mass casualties on innocent and vulnerable victims.
    Before we start forcing elementary school teachers to learn to shoot and keep a gun in their desk, why don't we see where the paper trail leads on how the person got the guns. Did his mother fill out the permits herself? Who sold her the guns, was this really done by the book? Why does a women who hosts dice parties and put up Christmas decorations go out buy an assault rifle?

    And why don't we wait and see what type of therapy he may have had and if some doctor had treated or officially diagnosed him.

    With regard to metal disease and involuntary commitment, perhaps we need to consider reviewing the restrictions and checks on gun ownership for people who have been diagnosed or treated for manic-depression and schizophrenia. They don't always get hospital treatment.

    When a family member of mine was diagnosed with Alzheimers, I was surprise that the doctor was not legally obligated to notify the department of motor vehicles. This was only done by request.

    When a doctor makes an official diagnosis of manic-depression or schizophrenia, why are they not required to notify local police or the state department responsible for gun permits. And if you have a mentally ill adult living in your home, then we should assume they have access to weapons you may have a legal permit for. The guns should be confiscated by police until a judge determines the likelihood of a violent episode.

    This notion that we can never predict when a person is going to snap is totally false. Metal diseases don't come on suddenly like a cold.

    In the wake of the Colorado shooting, there were tons of red flags that were either missed or ignored -- a therapist had contacted police. The police and the local gun club dropped the ball and we should questioned about their inaction.

  7. #67
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by mr4anarchy View Post
    Before we start forcing elementary school teachers to learn to shoot and keep a gun in their desk, why don't we see where the paper trail leads on how the person got the guns. Did his mother fill out the permits herself? Who sold her the guns, was this really done by the book? Why does a women who hosts dice parties and put up Christmas decorations go out buy an assault rifle?
    I didn't say force. I think in most cases you'll find several people in any school more than willing to serve on an armed response team. Further, it doesn't matter why she had it, it's a legal firearm purchased legally. "Assault rifle" merely refers to what the weapon looks like. It can be just as lethal as a hunting style rifle as an "assault" style rifle.

    And why don't we wait and see what type of therapy he may have had and if some doctor had treated or officially diagnosed him.

    With regard to metal disease and involuntary commitment, perhaps we need to consider reviewing the restrictions and checks on gun ownership for people who have been diagnosed or treated for manic-depression and schizophrenia. They don't always get hospital treatment.

    When a family member of mine was diagnosed with Alzheimers, I was surprise that the doctor was not legally obligated to notify the department of motor vehicles. This was only done by request.

    When a doctor makes an official diagnosis of manic-depression or schizophrenia, why are they not required to notify local police or the state department responsible for gun permits. And if you have a mentally ill adult living in your home, then we should assume they have access to weapons you may have a legal permit for. The guns should be confiscated by police until a judge determines the likelihood of a violent episode.

    This notion that we can never predict when a person is going to snap is totally false. Metal diseases don't come on suddenly like a cold.

    In the wake of the Colorado shooting, there were tons of red flags that were either missed or ignored -- a therapist had contacted police. The police and the local gun club dropped the ball and we should questioned about their inaction.
    The answer to all these is: The right to privacy.

  8. #68
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    a 9mm Glock and some variation of a SIG Sauer; he may have had another weapon in the building but there seems to be conflicting reports on that and whether it was used.
    As of 6:00 PM my time, he used a semi automatic weapon which is an assault weapon.

  9. #69
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    As of 6:00 PM my time, he used a semi automatic weapon which is an assault weapon.
    Nope. Please feel free to give us the technical definitions of semi-automatic and assault weapons. We'll wait.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #70
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    Re: In light of today's events

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    As of 6:00 PM my time, he used a semi automatic weapon which is an assault weapon.
    See this is the problem. Below is a picture of a 30-06 semi-auto rifle that is a very common hunting rifle. It is probably one of the most common big game hunting rifles around in the US. Now the democrats have tried in the past to declare this an assault weapon, but I think you can look at it (unless you are a no gun for anybody person) and see that it is hardly comparable to an M-16.

    In light of today's events-100_0228-jpg

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