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Enlightenend Society

How long will it take?


  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
"We" will need as many years as it takes for the conservatives and liberals to realize that war is the worst possible thing for an economy.
This includes any and all "wars".
poverty
drugs
Islam
communism
nazism
fear and ignorance
pollution
 
The economy doesn't need any fixing.

Those who deserve to be living well are.

Those blue collar workers who got too greedy had their jobs sent to China. They are getting what they deserve.

IMO, the blue collar workers are the so-called innocent victims......of their own greed.

Its the "deserve to be living well" who have directly sent the jobs to China, Mexico, India, and now, YES, even the USA !
All are greedy, we just have to be less greedy than others.
And I agree, the liberals and conservatives must keep their hands off the economy.
 
Neither 'Pubs nor 'Crats are going to "fix" the economy.... let alone the underlying problems in our current economic/fiscal setup and how we got into this mess, until BOTH sides understand certain things they don't wish to face...


1. "Free Market" is not an unmitigated good, nor pure evil.
2. Unrestrained capitalism does not always produce the greatest good for the greatest number.
3. Business is not the enemy; nor is it God. Like electricity, it can be channeled to produce positive outcomes; undirected and unconstrained it can become self-serving and destructive to the greater good.
4. Regulation and taxes are like blood pressure medicine; just the right amount is beneficial. Too little or too much and you create problems instead of solving them.
5. We cannot spend without limit or constraint. We must get this under control, and be more efficient and less wasteful in gov't spending.
6. "Free trade" and "Global economy" have done us more harm than good. They've cost us jobs and entire industries and left us with a lot of people who would LIKE to work, but are not suited to a "service and tech" economy. We need trade and globalism WHERE IT BENEFITS US, and we need to protect our national economic interests and jobs when it does not.
7. Most people really WOULD rather work than sit and collect welfare... if they could find a job they're capable of that pays a reasonable wage that makes it worthwhile. We ought to encourage this and try to make such jobs available.... but this isn't going to magically happen by unconscious action by the Free Market Tooth Fairy, it is something we have to MAKE happen with supportive policy.
8. Don't let anyone plunder us.... don't let companies move their factory to TimbuckThree and pay slave wages and then import their products back into the lucrative US consumer market.
9. One way or another, or all-the-above... we've got to make our government's income and outgo come closer to parity. We can't go on indefinitely spending over a trillion a year of money we don't have.
 
I said current congress because it's been taken over far right extremists who haven't a clue how to govern or balance a check book.

Got any evidence to back that up? How do you see far right extremist taking over congress? Don't the Dems have a majority in the senate, which increased during the last election? What evidence do you have the Dems are able to balance a check book or have a clue how to govern? You say the right cannot balance a check book, but which party is that is pushing for the most cuts? Which party is blocking most of those cuts? Which side actually controlled congress the last time, or for that matter, the only times in over 40 years, that the budget was balanced?


Currently, no party has full control of congress. Also, I seem to remember the Dems having full control and the budget deficit jumping to almost double previous levels their first year and breaking a Trillion dollars the next. Deficit spending would be unable to balance your check book and spending more than you have.

"That government is best which governs least" - attributed to either Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine.

Well, we know that under that belief, the Dems definitely do no govern best.
 
Democrats would have to learn how to stop spending money like it's going out of style first. So... never.
 
I think it's better when states compete, rather than help each other.

Lets face it. First, Washington porks up everything and steals what they can. Then the states, the counties, the cities and the districts. With what little is left, post-politician feasting, is better used by some states than others. That's why some states (ND) are prospering and some states (CA NV) are falling on their collective asses.

Once again, we are distracted by "liberals" and "conservatives" while our politicians fill their pockets and those of their "admirers".

So, lets pray that money creation is endless and still works just as it has for the last decade. Its pretty obvious that nothing will be changing anytime soon.




I agree
Our economy can be "fixed" on a state by state basis.
Our states MUST share info, to determine what works and what does not.
 
>implying that the Democrats haven't controlled the Senate since January of '07

With the abuse of Senate rules by the Republicans, Republicans have de facto control of Congress.
 
Then George Bush is off the hook, right?

Econimies around the world is subject to boom-bust cycles. When you thrive on wars the rocovery could take abt a decade. However, the recovery is imminent.
 
Democrats would have to learn how to stop spending money like it's going out of style first. So... never.

The Democrats are the only ones in Congress that voted against spending almost as much as the rest of the world COMBINED on the military.
 
The Democrats are the only ones in Congress that voted against spending almost as much as the rest of the world COMBINED on the military.

And then they turn around and vote for lots of other spending. Come on, don't be ridiculous. We're spending tons of money that we cannot afford and at the moment, it's coming from the Democrats.
 
And then they turn around and vote for lots of other spending. Come on, don't be ridiculous. We're spending tons of money that we cannot afford and at the moment, it's coming from the Democrats.

Its not just the Democrats, I just told you the Democrats were the only ones that voted against spending over $600 billion next year on the military. A majority of Democrats also voted against the needless Iraq war that cost taxpayers $2 trillion dollars. Name me the last Republican administration that came close to balancing the budget?
 
Its not just the Democrats, I just told you the Democrats were the only ones that voted against spending over $600 billion next year on the military. A majority of Democrats also voted against the needless Iraq war that cost taxpayers $2 trillion dollars. Name me the last Republican administration that came close to balancing the budget?

Yet they voted for Obamacare which is projected to cost $1.76 trillion in just the first ten years alone.
 
I have been of voting age since Reagan and Charter. I can honestly say I have never seen a Republican or Democrat president fix the economy. I have however seen a couple of Democrats at least balance the budget. I can't say the same for Republicans in my life time. In fact the last Republican president we had spent like a drunken sailor.

So I don't think anyone can "fix" the economy. They can however balance the budget. I hate to say it but the preponderance of the evidence points to the Democrats being a safer bet. Republicans have not balanced a budget since I think Ike?
 
The Democrats are the only ones in Congress that voted against spending almost as much as the rest of the world COMBINED on the military.

We need to maintain our military. Actually we need to greatly improve the average equipment available, it is getting quite old.

You seem to wish to blame defense for budgeting shortfalls, but all defense spending only comes to about half of average deficits that Obama has been running up. Even if we dropped every penny from the defense budget, our deficit would still exceed, by almost double or mored, the highest deficit under Bush, which occurred when the Dems had control of Congress.

Can the military be cut some? Sure. But what do we cut? Since it obviously is not the total of our overspending, what else do we cut? What programs have the Dems offered up? Have they offered up spending from other programs to be cut, or only attack Defense and other budgets that the Reps are trying to protect? Compromise cannot come from only one side. Cuts to defense have to be looked at very carefully and not done hodge-podge.

If the Republicans were to offer up say, $200 billion from defense, would the Dems offer up $200 billion from their chosen pet areas? I guess it is possible, but I haven't seen much evidence of them doing so.
 
I said current congress because it's been taken over far right extremists who haven't a clue how to govern or balance a check book.


Even the democrats in the Senate voted against the only Obama budget effort but it is the far right wing extremists holding the country hostage.... :lamo
 
Another rigged poll
Neither Democrats nor "Republicans" know how to "fix" an economy.
This is NOT the purpose of politicans..
This is why we have economists, even some of these can be jerks..
 
It took 30 years to break it, its going to take 30 years to fix it. There are no magic wands.

I honestly believe that although Ronnie Reagan started us on this road to disaster, it was the works of GWShiiteForBrains that accelerated our demise. His policies have left a nearly irreparable economy. I think it can be fixed in about 12 years, but not without some sort of incentives to create jobs at local levels. That does not mean giving more money to the alleged "job creators" who have not created jobs. Money for more school teachers, not new buildings. Money for local energy projects that deliver local savings and benefits. Money for local infrastructure improvements done by locals. We have established a huge Corporate Welfare Net that has been sucking our economy dry. We have been making War to maintain Military/Industrial/Corporate projects and profits. We have military in 140 countries. We are not the World's police because every country in whch we intervene presents some Corporate, strategic, or resource reward and that is about selfishness, not police work. We need to step back and look at our Nation objectively instead of buying the imagery being propagated by the Media. We are good people and the acts of our gov't don't reflect that and have not since Eisenhower was president. Truman was good also.
 
I honestly believe that although Ronnie Reagan started us on this road to disaster, it was the works of GWShiiteForBrains that accelerated our demise. His policies have left a nearly irreparable economy. I think it can be fixed in about 12 years, but not without some sort of incentives to create jobs at local levels. That does not mean giving more money to the alleged "job creators" who have not created jobs. Money for more school teachers, not new buildings. Money for local energy projects that deliver local savings and benefits. Money for local infrastructure improvements done by locals. We have established a huge Corporate Welfare Net that has been sucking our economy dry. We have been making War to maintain Military/Industrial/Corporate projects and profits. We have military in 140 countries. We are not the World's police because every country in whch we intervene presents some Corporate, strategic, or resource reward and that is about selfishness, not police work. We need to step back and look at our Nation objectively instead of buying the imagery being propagated by the Media. We are good people and the acts of our gov't don't reflect that and have not since Eisenhower was president. Truman was good also.

I believe you are totally incorrect. Some of the laws that affected the economy and still affect it date back to FDR, however many of the rest go back to Kennedy and Johnson areas, with a few more thrown in during the Carter years and into the Clinton years. Even during the Nixon, Reagan, and G. H. Bush times, Dems controlled both house of congress.

DOD spending for 2012 was $707.5 Billion, the deficit for that year is $1.3 Trillion. So, even if we had not spent a penny on defense, the deficit would still have been 592.5 Billion. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Defense is not the sole, nor major problem. Not to mention that the DOD creates a lot of jobs and employs a lot of people. That is part of the problem, even those Congressmen/Senators who want to cut military spending only want to do so in someone else's district, not theirs because of the jobs and economic benefits DOD brings to an areas.

You are also leaving off the economic impact of Unions, OSHA, EPA, Fair Housing Act, Fair Credit acts, Free Trade agreements with countries who cannot economically contribute much if anything in our favor (One NAFTA, was Clinton's creation, South Korea was Obama's) and more that I probably don't know about or cannot think of off the top of my head.

You and others want to blame G.W. Bush, I won't deny that he probably had some to do with it. If you believe it was him, give us the facts of what he did to cause it. Where is your proof of what you say? It is easy to say things, but can you back them up? Come on, show us your facts and your logic chain. I for one am not going to just take your word for it.

P.S. one a personal note, you claim conservative as you lean, but I, for one, have noticed that a large number of your post espouse ideas/ideals in keeping with American Liberalism.
 
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