View Poll Results: How long will it take?

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  • 4 Years

    4 10.26%
  • 8 years

    1 2.56%
  • 12 Years

    2 5.13%
  • 16 or More Years

    3 7.69%
  • Democrats don't know how to fix the economy

    29 74.36%
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Thread: Enlightenend Society

  1. #71
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I said current congress because it's been taken over far right extremists who haven't a clue how to govern or balance a check book.

    Even the democrats in the Senate voted against the only Obama budget effort but it is the far right wing extremists holding the country hostage....

  2. #72
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    And it's only going to get worse.

    BBC News - What will a white-minority US look like?

    What are we supposed to to about this? What is a good plan for our future?
    Nothing. If future generations look more like Derek Jeter than we're heading in the right direction.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

  3. #73
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Another rigged poll
    Neither Democrats nor "Republicans" know how to "fix" an economy.
    This is NOT the purpose of politicans..
    This is why we have economists, even some of these can be jerks..

  4. #74
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It took 30 years to break it, its going to take 30 years to fix it. There are no magic wands.
    I honestly believe that although Ronnie Reagan started us on this road to disaster, it was the works of GWShiiteForBrains that accelerated our demise. His policies have left a nearly irreparable economy. I think it can be fixed in about 12 years, but not without some sort of incentives to create jobs at local levels. That does not mean giving more money to the alleged "job creators" who have not created jobs. Money for more school teachers, not new buildings. Money for local energy projects that deliver local savings and benefits. Money for local infrastructure improvements done by locals. We have established a huge Corporate Welfare Net that has been sucking our economy dry. We have been making War to maintain Military/Industrial/Corporate projects and profits. We have military in 140 countries. We are not the World's police because every country in whch we intervene presents some Corporate, strategic, or resource reward and that is about selfishness, not police work. We need to step back and look at our Nation objectively instead of buying the imagery being propagated by the Media. We are good people and the acts of our gov't don't reflect that and have not since Eisenhower was president. Truman was good also.

  5. #75
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I honestly believe that although Ronnie Reagan started us on this road to disaster, it was the works of GWShiiteForBrains that accelerated our demise. His policies have left a nearly irreparable economy. I think it can be fixed in about 12 years, but not without some sort of incentives to create jobs at local levels. That does not mean giving more money to the alleged "job creators" who have not created jobs. Money for more school teachers, not new buildings. Money for local energy projects that deliver local savings and benefits. Money for local infrastructure improvements done by locals. We have established a huge Corporate Welfare Net that has been sucking our economy dry. We have been making War to maintain Military/Industrial/Corporate projects and profits. We have military in 140 countries. We are not the World's police because every country in whch we intervene presents some Corporate, strategic, or resource reward and that is about selfishness, not police work. We need to step back and look at our Nation objectively instead of buying the imagery being propagated by the Media. We are good people and the acts of our gov't don't reflect that and have not since Eisenhower was president. Truman was good also.
    I believe you are totally incorrect. Some of the laws that affected the economy and still affect it date back to FDR, however many of the rest go back to Kennedy and Johnson areas, with a few more thrown in during the Carter years and into the Clinton years. Even during the Nixon, Reagan, and G. H. Bush times, Dems controlled both house of congress.

    DOD spending for 2012 was $707.5 Billion, the deficit for that year is $1.3 Trillion. So, even if we had not spent a penny on defense, the deficit would still have been 592.5 Billion. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Defense is not the sole, nor major problem. Not to mention that the DOD creates a lot of jobs and employs a lot of people. That is part of the problem, even those Congressmen/Senators who want to cut military spending only want to do so in someone else's district, not theirs because of the jobs and economic benefits DOD brings to an areas.

    You are also leaving off the economic impact of Unions, OSHA, EPA, Fair Housing Act, Fair Credit acts, Free Trade agreements with countries who cannot economically contribute much if anything in our favor (One NAFTA, was Clinton's creation, South Korea was Obama's) and more that I probably don't know about or cannot think of off the top of my head.

    You and others want to blame G.W. Bush, I won't deny that he probably had some to do with it. If you believe it was him, give us the facts of what he did to cause it. Where is your proof of what you say? It is easy to say things, but can you back them up? Come on, show us your facts and your logic chain. I for one am not going to just take your word for it.

    P.S. one a personal note, you claim conservative as you lean, but I, for one, have noticed that a large number of your post espouse ideas/ideals in keeping with American Liberalism.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    The US officially made a shift to the Left during this last election, as the majority of this Country voted for Barack Obama, for the second time. Liberals and Progressives are considered to be the "enlightened ones", so it stands to reason that America has officially stepped into the "Enlightened Age". In essence, we have become an (or the?) enlightened society, hence the name of this thread. It's now up to the shepherds of enlightenment to overcome what little opposition they have left, and guide this country to Utopia. The question is, how long will it take?
    We are NOT in any enlightened age as the conservatives still "run things" with their control of the House...
    And, in a great many respects, our Mr Obama is a conservative !
    Utopia is such a relative thing, compared to 1950, for many, we do have an utopia.
    And, slowly but surely, I think we are approaching this state - but this chase will go on forever, in my opinion.

  7. #77
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I believe you are totally incorrect. Some of the laws that affected the economy and still affect it date back to FDR, however many of the rest go back to Kennedy and Johnson areas, with a few more thrown in during the Carter years and into the Clinton years. Even during the Nixon, Reagan, and G. H. Bush times, Dems controlled both house of congress.

    DOD spending for 2012 was $707.5 Billion, the deficit for that year is $1.3 Trillion. So, even if we had not spent a penny on defense, the deficit would still have been 592.5 Billion. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Defense is not the sole, nor major problem. Not to mention that the DOD creates a lot of jobs and employs a lot of people. That is part of the problem, even those Congressmen/Senators who want to cut military spending only want to do so in someone else's district, not theirs because of the jobs and economic benefits DOD brings to an areas.

    You are also leaving off the economic impact of Unions, OSHA, EPA, Fair Housing Act, Fair Credit acts, Free Trade agreements with countries who cannot economically contribute much if anything in our favor (One NAFTA, was Clinton's creation, South Korea was Obama's) and more that I probably don't know about or cannot think of off the top of my head.

    You and others want to blame G.W. Bush, I won't deny that he probably had some to do with it. If you believe it was him, give us the facts of what he did to cause it. Where is your proof of what you say? It is easy to say things, but can you back them up? Come on, show us your facts and your logic chain. I for one am not going to just take your word for it.

    P.S. one a personal note, you claim conservative as you lean, but I, for one, have noticed that a large number of your post espouse ideas/ideals in keeping with American Liberalism.
    Ruth Marcus: The shifting line on tax cuts - The Washington Post
    Ruth Marcus: The shifting line on tax cuts - The Washington Post

    That story will tell you why ol' GW initiated the tax cuts. He said the surplus was too big and we needed the cuts. Then he started two wars on the cheap, only a couple trillion dollars, on the credit card. Cranked up the Military Offense budget, bought mercenaries (Blackwater, etc.), new subs, new ships, too much of everything for the Corporate "Welfare Quieens," including Nuclear Energy and Fossil fuel Corporations, and including those Military 'wellie" projects. I'm a Conservative and I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

    Commentary: A close-up look at corporate welfare | McClatchy (Corporate wellies)

  8. #78
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Ruth Marcus: The shifting line on tax cuts - The Washington Post
    Ruth Marcus: The shifting line on tax cuts - The Washington Post

    That story will tell you why ol' GW initiated the tax cuts. He said the surplus was too big and we needed the cuts. Then he started two wars on the cheap, only a couple trillion dollars, on the credit card. Cranked up the Military Offense budget, bought mercenaries (Blackwater, etc.), new subs, new ships, too much of everything for the Corporate "Welfare Quieens," including Nuclear Energy and Fossil fuel Corporations, and including those Military 'wellie" projects. I'm a Conservative and I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

    Commentary: A close-up look at corporate welfare | McClatchy (Corporate wellies)
    Both your links are Opinion pieces, however the first does contain some facts. Now, how exactly did those facts cause economic problems? They did indeed cause budgetary problems, but what is you link between them and current economic problems?

    The second article is based upon calling tax breaks corporate welfare. I understand that some feel this way, however, I do not equate tax breaks, even your article points out they were to attract business, to welfare which is a direct government handout from Tax Revenue. Obama's handing out money to green companies without expectation of return, that I would call a form of Corporate Welfare. However, setting up a tax system to attract business and jobs, is not "corporate welfare", it is investing in economic growth at worst.

    Again, how do you link this to the economic downturn in the country instead of it only attributing to budgetary problems?

    Ok, Blackwater and entities like them were created when W.J. Clinton slashed the military budgets and caused manning shortages, those jobs were converted to private contractors. New Subs, new ships? Were they all planned during G.W. Bushes Presidency. And were they actually new additions or replacement for old equipment?

    An example of what I am talking about would be the fielding of the F-22 fighter. It has been in development since the 1980s and was supposed to replace air-superiority fighters, the F-15s, which entered service around 1972 and the airframes themselves are very old, especially in terms of high performance military aircraft.

    This also created and maintained jobs. Did the corporations gain from it, sure, but so did people who were employed by it and spent money that employed others. How is this contributing to the economic downturn?

    And he only started one war, the first was started when someone directly attacked the US. Again, while this caused some budgetary crises, how did it cause or contribute to the economic downturn?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  9. #79
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    "Clinton has some intriguing facts on his side. Aside from a rounding error, his historical numbers are accurate (figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that the tally under Democrats since 1961 rounds to 41 million, not 42 million). I crunched the numbers a few different ways to see if Clinton was cherry-picking the best numbers. His figures measure job gains from the month a president took office until the month he left. Since it takes a year or so for any president's policies to go into effect, I also measured job gains from one year after each president took office till one year after he left. Here's the score by that measure: Democrats: 38 million new jobs, Republicans, 27 million."

    Clinton was right: The economy really does perform better under Democrats - Economy Watch on NBCNews.com

    the proof is in the numbers.
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    Re: Enlightenend Society

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Both your links are Opinion pieces, however the first does contain some facts. Now, how exactly did those facts cause economic problems? They did indeed cause budgetary problems, but what is you link between them and current economic problems?

    The second article is based upon calling tax breaks corporate welfare. I understand that some feel this way, however, I do not equate tax breaks, even your article points out they were to attract business, to welfare which is a direct government handout from Tax Revenue. Obama's handing out money to green companies without expectation of return, that I would call a form of Corporate Welfare. However, setting up a tax system to attract business and jobs, is not "corporate welfare", it is investing in economic growth at worst.

    Again, how do you link this to the economic downturn in the country instead of it only attributing to budgetary problems?

    Ok, Blackwater and entities like them were created when W.J. Clinton slashed the military budgets and caused manning shortages, those jobs were converted to private contractors. New Subs, new ships? Were they all planned during G.W. Bushes Presidency. And were they actually new additions or replacement for old equipment?

    An example of what I am talking about would be the fielding of the F-22 fighter. It has been in development since the 1980s and was supposed to replace air-superiority fighters, the F-15s, which entered service around 1972 and the airframes themselves are very old, especially in terms of high performance military aircraft.

    This also created and maintained jobs. Did the corporations gain from it, sure, but so did people who were employed by it and spent money that employed others. How is this contributing to the economic downturn?

    And he only started one war, the first was started when someone directly attacked the US. Again, while this caused some budgetary crises, how did it cause or contribute to the economic downturn?
    I won't give an inch on the Military Offense budget. You need wars to maintain those levels of Military and I think we have politically powerful groups who work hard to start those wars to the benefit of their Corporate paymasters. Sure, makes jobs that could be doing small wind generators, solar panels, solar thermal, biogas digesters, and type decentralized energy network that puts people to work locally all over the Nation. I will not swallow the turd that Military makes good jobs. Bull****, and it's definitely Military Offense, not Defense. We were not attacked by Afghanistan. It was a terrorist named Osama bin Ladin and he's dead. We were not attacked by Saddam, not even threatened. As regards OBL, he was a creature of our own CIA. Backflash, eh? Nuclear Energy is Corporate welfare. Fossil Fuel energy is Corporate welfare. The Military/Industrial/Corporate complex is welfare. Corporate farms are welfare. Investment funds move paper, don't make jobs. The wealthier are wealthier than anytime in our history, ergo if wealth made jobs, we'd be swimming in them as we speak. Corporate prisons need laws that keep prisons full, ergo goofy but profitable drug laws. Torture, rendition, invasion, coercion, CIA NGOs making revolution, and we're just in the tip of the iceberg. An economy that runs on war is an embarrassment to its people, a black mark on it as a Nation, and an abomination to any religion.

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