View Poll Results: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?

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  • Yes, civil unions are an acceptable compromise.

    17 16.19%
  • No, they are not, because:

    55 52.38%
  • The government should not be involved with marriage, at all.

    25 23.81%
  • Other (Please Explain)

    8 7.62%
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Thread: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

  1. #731
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Apparently this is complicated for you, so I will say it slowly:

    Gay people have families too.

    Now your whole argument has just fallen apart.
    No, it hasn't, because my argument is not contingent upon them not having families.

  2. #732
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well that's fine by me, so is gay marriage, as long as things can remain as they are for everyone else.
    you keep saying this do you have an example of something that as changed or a reason why you think gay marriage has any reason to change other marriage more so that interracial marriage or the people that only want whites to marry etc.

    im just saying your concerns should if they are real should exsit RIGHT NOW and not be inpacted by gay marriage, its meaningless to your concerns.
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    you keep saying this do you have an example of something that as changed or a reason why you think gay marriage has any reason to change other marriage more so that interracial marriage or the people that only want whites to marry etc.

    im just saying your concerns should if they are real should exsit RIGHT NOW and not be inpacted by gay marriage, its meaningless to your concerns.
    It's a concern I have, that's all. Just because you say something is meaningless doesn't make it so.

  4. #734
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    One of the common arugements I've seen from social conservatives is that the creation of a civil union should answer the questions regarding gay marriage.

    Typically, the general idea is this:

    • The civil union will contain the same benefits as a heterosexual marriage
    • The term 'marriage' will only be recognized as between one man and one woman


    So, dear reader, my question to you is: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise with regards to the issue of Same-Sex marriage?

    I'll try to have the answers as applicable as possible.
    I think better would be to call both same sex and heterosexual unions civil unions and have the exact same legal status.

    Leave what is marriage up to individuals, their social groups, and their churches.

    Rather than legally call one marriage and the other civil union. Most heterosexual couples would probably not mind their legal status be called a civil union.
    One learns more by listening than talking.

  5. #735
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    That arguement could be used against all adoption-based families.
    If we were altering our public definitions to make that the norm instead of the exception, I could see that - but given that public definition would remain centered around a pair of parents raising a child, I would imagine that any effect would be minimal.

    Incorrect. You decrease the degree when you alter the connection. Two lesbians or two gay men can still have the same level of connection with their children as straight couples do.
    Except that you are ignoring the critical step that we must take to get There from Here - which is to redefine marriage as simply "two (presumably) adults (presumably) who love each other"

    Are you suggesting that the studies I have read are incorrect?
    I am suggesting that studies which depend upon self-selection for their sample have self-selection bias. The one major study that we have seen that worked from the perspective of children raised by homosexual parents rather than homosexual parents who volunteered for a study showed very different results, and was accordingly bitterly and acerbically attacked from all sides.

    The People of Washington would like to have a word with you.
    Yes, I saw that. What is that supposed to evidence?
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-12-12 at 12:48 AM.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It's a concern I have, that's all. Just because you say something is meaningless doesn't make it so.
    i agree but in this case its true, your concerns and what you fear have nothing more to do with gay marriage than anything else related.
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  7. #737
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
    I think better would be to call both same sex and heterosexual unions civil unions and have the exact same legal status.

    Leave what is marriage up to individuals, their social groups, and their churches.

    Rather than legally call one marriage and the other civil union. Most heterosexual couples would probably not mind their legal status be called a civil union.
    I would care because such a change would be done for no real reason except to appease complainers, a small minority of complainers that is dwindling everyday. And it would cost taxpayer money to implement. It should be kept marriage. Religion does not own marriage and there would be just as much complaining if everyone had to change to civil unions legally as there would be just allowing both same sex couples and opposite sex couples to legally marry.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #738
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Some origins do indeed come from Roman Law, but the major underlying tenets come from an explicitly Christian outlook. The notion of individual sovereignty, for example (the idea that you have rights that the government cannot correctly abuse) flowed directly from the Christian belief that the individual had access to God.



    Yup. Neither does it say in law that we shouldn't alter the definition of marriage due to the Bible. Whether that is peoples' intent or not is irrelevant, just as it is with murder and theft. In a nation where the people are sovereign, decisions can be made by them for any reason they choose.
    You are changing your argument in midstream. Marriage law arrived not from christinity, but from benefit to society. Origins vastly precede christianity.



    There I would have to disagree - if you will see my discussion with jredbarron, I think that we do indeed effect family in our society.
    No, your arguments where based on fear, ignorance and emotion. No logic.

    How much is significant.?
    Currently 1/3 of lesbians and 1/4 of gay men have children.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, it hasn't, because my argument is not contingent upon them not having families.
    Your argument was 100 % contingent on that. You just fail to realize that.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #740
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are changing your argument in midstream. Marriage law arrived not from christinity, but from benefit to society. Origins vastly precede christianity.
    Now you are changing your argument midstream. My argument is that the source of peoples' motivations for voting for one law or another is immaterial. If I vote for higher taxes, it does not matter if I do so because I think that the wealthy should pay more or if I do so because I think Jesus would want me to - my decision as a sovereign individual belongs to me and I can make it for whatever reason I wish.

    No, your arguments where based on fear, ignorance and emotion. No logic.
    Fear and emotion? No, simple judgement. You want them to be based on fear, ignorance, and emotion because it allows you to discount the opposition.

    Currently 1/3 of lesbians and 1/4 of gay men have children.
    Which isn't what I asked, but is interesting.

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