View Poll Results: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?

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  • Yes, civil unions are an acceptable compromise.

    17 16.19%
  • No, they are not, because:

    55 52.38%
  • The government should not be involved with marriage, at all.

    25 23.81%
  • Other (Please Explain)

    8 7.62%
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Thread: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

  1. #691
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm talking about any possible objection they could have. The terminology example was just that, an example. And like I said, the terminology is not necessarily an important issue to me, nor are any of the issues (I'm not married), I'm just trying to think in terms of at least attempting to make everybody happy.

    I still don't understand the objection that if someone is NOT happy with marriage the way it is that they can choose a civil union. YOU guys still haven't come up with any good reason for your objections other than to say a public option already exists and is defined. I could also say that about marriage. Take it or leave it.
    The government form is the ONLY thing that could change. The ceremony is up to the couple, no one has any say over that. The vows are up to the couple no one has any say over those.

    Civil unions are already filling a need as a separate legal union. Most people who have civil unions have legal reasons to do so. They don't want marriage.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingPaige View Post
    As for the, "if we allow SSM, before you know it, Joe will want to marry a horse, or a dog, or his hairdryer..." argument -- Will someone puh-leeeeze take me down that road??? It sounds an awful lot like the same road where someone experiments with pot, and the next thing you know, they are selling their behind in the NYC subways for "a fix." Another topic entirely... I'm just sayin'!
    Well I am doubtful that THAT would ever happen. Animals can't consent, so hopefully lines can still be drawn on who can marry what.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    The government form is the ONLY thing that could change. The ceremony is up to the couple, no one has any say over that. The vows are up to the couple no one has any say over those.

    Civil unions are already filling a need as a separate legal union. Most people who have civil unions have legal reasons to do so. They don't want marriage.
    This is just not the case, as marriage gives benefits that civil unions do not a lot of people who MIGHT have chosen a civil union would surely choose a marriage instead, even if they don't like all that marriage stands for.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's great. I am talking about INCREASING the benefits one will have with a civil union, not taking any away.
    Most people who have civil unions can already have the same benefits as marriage by getting married. They choose to have a civil union as it now is for one reason or another. If you make civil unions equal to marriage, you would have to make a new union to fill the role that civil unions currently fill. Plus it costs more money to have redundancy in any system, and that is exactly what having two separate unions with the same exact benefits would be. Redundant.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    Most people who have civil unions can already have the same benefits as marriage by getting married. They choose to have a civil union as it now is for one reason or another. If you make civil unions equal to marriage, you would have to make a new union to fill the role that civil unions currently fill. Plus it costs more money to have redundancy in any system, and that is exactly what having two separate unions with the same exact benefits would be. Redundant.
    How about common law marriage? Some states still have this I believe as well.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is just not the case, as marriage gives benefits that civil unions do not a lot of people who MIGHT have chosen a civil union would surely choose a marriage instead, even if they don't like all that marriage stands for.
    No. With a civil union it is possible to keep assets completely separate. Civil unions also don't show you as "married" which is important in some business, and financial matters. Of course civil unions differ from state to state.

    And if people would choose to have more benefits, then there would be no hetero couple that currently has a civil union, because they can currently choose to get married. However there ARE hetero couples that choose civil unions over marriage for a multitude of reasons.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    No. With a civil union it is possible to keep assets completely separate. Civil unions also don't show you as "married" which is important in some business, and financial matters. Of course civil unions differ from state to state.

    And if people would choose to have more benefits, then there would be no hetero couple that currently has a civil union, because they can currently choose to get married. However there ARE hetero couples that choose civil unions over marriage for a multitude of reasons.
    Some people don't like the religious connections with marriage and would probably prefer a more sterile version of a marriage such as a civil union. Of course, neither of us can say what anyone would really want, as we really don't know, but I still don't see a really good objection to offering both as an option to anyone, and increasing the benefits. I also don't see any reason why one couldn't waive some benefits if they don't wish to have them.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    How about common law marriage? Some states still have this I believe as well.
    Common law marriage laws vary from state to state. Many states do not recognize common law marriages from other states, some states don't allow them at all, and the federal government doesn't recognize them at all I believe.

    Currently 40 states do not allow common law marriages to be contracted.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Some people don't like the religious connections with marriage and would probably prefer a more sterile version of a marriage such as a civil union. Of course, neither of us can say what anyone would really want, as we really don't know, but I still don't see a really good objection to offering both as an option to anyone, and increasing the benefits. I also don't see any reason why one couldn't waive some benefits if they don't wish to have them.
    There is no religious connection with a government marriage if the couple does not want there to be. It is a legally binding contract. No church/religion/God needed by the government for it to be legal.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    Common law marriage laws vary from state to state. Many states do not recognize common law marriages from other states, some states don't allow them at all, and the federal government doesn't recognize them at all I believe.

    Currently 40 states do not allow common law marriages to be contracted.
    I don't see why not. If you want to share your benefits with someone you've lived with for a number of years, you should be able to do that. If people want to join together to share benefits and the like, I don't see why the government should be able to stick it's big ugly nose into it.

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