View Poll Results: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?

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  • Yes, civil unions are an acceptable compromise.

    17 16.19%
  • No, they are not, because:

    55 52.38%
  • The government should not be involved with marriage, at all.

    25 23.81%
  • Other (Please Explain)

    8 7.62%
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Thread: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

  1. #601
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Yes, opinions that hurt others and cause feelings of hatred are "less important." The customs and traditions surrounding marriage are in no way meant to denigrate anyone. They are just traditions. I have no problem with SS couples who want to get married and not make changes to marriage itself.
    What traditions or customs are being changed though? The fact that the terminology on a form that has only been that way for a relatively short period of time in the first place isn't really changing either traditions or customs, things that are more personal and not a part of law in the first place. No one is required to refer to their spouse as "husband" or "wife". No one is required to refer to their soon to be husband or wife as "bride" or "groom" either. Nor would you be required to refer to your "bride" or "groom", "husband" or "wife" as "person A" or "person B" by just having such verbiage on the form.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    In truth, I really DON'T care that much about the terminology issue in marriage licenses. As I've repeatedly stated that is an example I am using to make a point about certain groups wanting to change things for others.
    What other changes to marriage itself can same sex couples being able to legally marry bring about besides changing terminology on the forms? I honestly cannot think of anything else. Terminology is it because the sexes/genders are legally equivalent when it comes to the laws or should be. If they aren't then the law itself needs to be challenged to begin with as gender discrimination because it isn't right to treat a "husband" different than a "wife" under the law.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 12-11-12 at 01:44 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #602
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Yes, opinions that hurt others and cause feelings of hatred are "less important." The customs and traditions surrounding marriage are in no way meant to denigrate anyone. They are just traditions. I have no problem with SS couples who want to get married and not make changes to marriage itself.

    In truth, I really DON'T care that much about the terminology issue in marriage licenses. As I've repeatedly stated that is an example I am using to make a point about certain groups wanting to change things for others.
    Do people have feelings of hatred when a couple decides to get married by an Elvis impersonator in a drive through chapel in Vegas?
    That is not following the customs and traditions of marriage. The words on the government have changed before, they will probably change again. That form doesn't have anything to do with your marriage customs and traditions.

    There are currently marriage license applications that say only spouse, or participant, or applicant in states that don't allow SSM. Are those forms stopping anyone from being a husband or wife? Are they stopping anyone from having a traditional or customary marriage?

    There are even states where one party doesn't even need to be physically there to have get married, all they have to do is fill out an affidavit.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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  3. #603
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    [QUOTE=roguenuke;1061237510]
    What traditions or customs are being changed though? The fact that the terminology on a form that has only been that way for a relatively short period of time in the first place isn't really changing either traditions or customs, things that are more personal and not a part of law in the first place. No one is required to refer to their spouse as "husband" or "wife". No one is required to refer to their soon to be husband or wife as "bride" or "groom" either. Nor would you be required to refer to your "bride" or "groom", "husband" or "wife" as "person A" or "person B" by just having such verbiage on the form.
    Again, like I said, that was just an example. My opinion is that SSM is okay with me as long as they don't try to change anything but if they want to make changes (maybe something "bigger" than simple terminology on a legal document), then they should go for a civil union, and IMO civil unions SHOULD include the benefits that marriage does.

    Some people don't agree with making marriage into some gender sterile meaningless government contract. Not everyone would be happy with that, and it has more meaning than that to some people.



    What other changes to marriage itself can same sex couples being able to legally marry bring about besides changing terminology on the forms? I honestly cannot think of anything else. Terminology is it because the sexes/genders are legally equivalent when it comes to the laws or should be. If they aren't then the law itself needs to be challenged to begin with as gender discrimination because it isn't right to treat a "husband" different than a "wife" under the law.
    I can't think of anything right now either, but that doesn't really mean anything. As a side note though, I don't see at all how leaving a document to say husband/wife or bride/groom is in any way discriminatory as long as you get to pick.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    [QUOTE=wolfsgirl;1061237591]
    Do people have feelings of hatred when a couple decides to get married by an Elvis impersonator in a drive through chapel in Vegas? That is not following the customs and traditions of marriage. The words on the government have changed before, they will probably change again. That form doesn't have anything to do with your marriage customs and traditions.
    I don't see what Elvis impersonators have to do with anything. As long as those people don't complain that they want an option on the marriage license form that says Elvis lover, then I couldn't care less.

    There are currently marriage license applications that say only spouse, or participant, or applicant in states that don't allow SSM. Are those forms stopping anyone from being a husband or wife? Are they stopping anyone from having a traditional or customary marriage?
    This is my point. Don't bitch and complain about the way things are and expect everything and everybody to change.

    There are even states where one party doesn't even need to be physically there to have get married, all they have to do is fill out an affidavit.
    This is completely irrelevant to everything.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    [QUOTE=ChrisL;1061238330]
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post

    I don't see what Elvis impersonators have to do with anything. As long as those people don't complain that they want an option on the marriage license form that says Elvis lover, then I couldn't care less.



    This is my point. Don't bitch and complain about the way things are and expect everything and everybody to change.



    This is completely irrelevant to everything.
    No, it is completely relevant. There are no set in stone rules from state to state. Some say applicant, some say participant, some say bride/groom, some let you check off bride/groom/spouse, some have said participant and changed to bride/groom. Are you outraged at other states that have never said bride/groom? How does that have any effect on what you call yourself and your spouse?

    The only traditions are what each couple decides to do in their ceremony, and no one can tell you how to have your ceremony.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    [QUOTE=wolfsgirl;1061238364]
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post

    No, it is completely relevant. There are no set in stone rules from state to state. Some say applicant, some say participant, some say bride/groom, some let you check off bride/groom/spouse, some have said participant and changed to bride/groom. Are you outraged at other states that have never said bride/groom? How does that have any effect on what you call yourself and your spouse?

    The only traditions are what each couple decides to do in their ceremony, and no one can tell you how to have your ceremony.
    Outraged? I already said several times that I am only using the terminology issue as an example of a change that some might want to make. Do I know IF they will want to change anything? No I don't. I am simply saying that if they DO want to make changes, perhaps marriage is not for them and a civil union would be a better fit.

    It is completely irrelevant whether or not somebody needs an affidavit to get married. That has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.

  7. #607
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    This is not an equal rights issue and it is not a religious issue. It is a biological issue. Biological compatibility has always been a vital part
    of the definition of marriage; nature (evolution, if you believe in that concept) has dictated how the pieces fit together amongst humans and how the species
    survives and flourishes.And before you go there, I know that marriage is more than a physical coupling, it is love and friendship/companionship....but ask yourself this: shouldn't any "marriage" based on less than the whole of the NATURAL definition be considered inferior?

    I say yes; once biological compatibility...once NATURE...is thrown out of the equation, any combination must be accepted under the ludicrous guise of "equal rights".
    Once that Pandora's box is opened, defining marriage as "two consenting adults" is just as discriminatory to man and dog/animal, brother and sister, man and multiple partners or man and inanimate object.

    Such nonsensical perversions of nature have been excluded from the marriage definition for recorded history because they fall below the biological definition for the species. Common sense has dictated these exclusions, including "gay marriage" and should continue to do so.

    So I say neither civil unions or so-called gay "marriage" are acceptable in any form in any part of the United States

  8. #608
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan62 View Post
    This is not an equal rights issue and it is not a religious issue. It is a biological issue. Biological compatibility has always been a vital part
    of the definition of marriage; nature (evolution, if you believe in that concept) has dictated how the pieces fit together amongst humans and how the species
    survives and flourishes.And before you go there, I know that marriage is more than a physical coupling, it is love and friendship/companionship....but ask yourself this: shouldn't any "marriage" based on less than the whole of the NATURAL definition be considered inferior?

    I say yes; once biological compatibility...once NATURE...is thrown out of the equation, any combination must be accepted under the ludicrous guise of "equal rights".
    Once that Pandora's box is opened, defining marriage as "two consenting adults" is just as discriminatory to man and dog/animal, brother and sister, man and multiple partners or man and inanimate object.

    Such nonsensical perversions of nature have been excluded from the marriage definition for recorded history because they fall below the biological definition for the species. Common sense has dictated these exclusions, including "gay marriage" and should continue to do so.

    So I say neither civil unions or so-called gay "marriage" are acceptable in any form in any part of the United States
    That is your right. You will be proven wrong in the long run . . . but you have a right to feel the way you do. As long as women are willing, gay men can have babies. As long as men are willing, gay women can have babies. You gotta love science . . . God gave it to us. In fact he gave us the brains to create a science called "Biology". Which you now seem to be trying to cite to stop 2-people who love each other from marrying. No one wants to marry a horse and the slippery slope you perceive does not exist in the mainstream . . . gays do though. They have been here since the beginning of civilization. they're here, they're queer . . . it would be ever so nice if you could get use to it.

  9. #609
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post

    Outraged? I already said several times that I am only using the terminology issue as an example of a change that some might want to make. Do I know IF they will want to change anything? No I don't. I am simply saying that if they DO want to make changes, perhaps marriage is not for them and a civil union would be a better fit.

    It is completely irrelevant whether or not somebody needs an affidavit to get married. That has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.

    You posted 50+ times in this thread "claiming" that gays want to change marriage and yet.....you haven't been able to state with specificity one thing about marriage that gays will change.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post

    Outraged? I already said several times that I am only using the terminology issue as an example of a change that some might want to make. Do I know IF they will want to change anything? No I don't. I am simply saying that if they DO want to make changes, perhaps marriage is not for them and a civil union would be a better fit.

    It is completely irrelevant whether or not somebody needs an affidavit to get married. That has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.
    What do you think that "they" might want to change?
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

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