View Poll Results: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?

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  • Yes, civil unions are an acceptable compromise.

    17 16.19%
  • No, they are not, because:

    55 52.38%
  • The government should not be involved with marriage, at all.

    25 23.81%
  • Other (Please Explain)

    8 7.62%
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Thread: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

  1. #571
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Do civil unions exist now? With what you are suggesting, would they have to change?

    And how do you figure I contradicted myself? I said it is petty and stupid because that doesn't matter overall to a person's marriage. However, there is a need for change because it is not reasonable to accept that a man must be referred to as "bride" or a woman "husband" just to be in a legal contract with each other. That can reasonably be viewed as offensive. Just as it would be offensive if a state had different marriage licenses for couples of different races, and those entering into a mixed marriage were required to use a certain race's form because some didn't want to change the whole system.
    Yes they would have to change. People tell me you don't get the same tax and other benefits that married couples get.

    And I NEVER suggested that a man have to be called a bride. I also suggested that they be able to choose any combination of bride/groom.

    You contradict yourself by saying that the terminology should be unimportant to one group of people, yet very important to another and at the same time you call it an irrelevant and stupid issue in so many words. One group of people is NOT more important than another. If they want to be "married" then they can, but accept it for what it does and does not include. Don't try to tailor it to fit the needs of ONE group while ignoring the other.

  2. #572
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Question: How does legalizing gay marriage alter the function?
    It alters the basis of the unit, which in turn shifts it from focusing on that function. It is as if we were to take the Sacramento Police Force and tell them that instead of solving and preventing crimes in Sacramento, they were now tasked with "world peace". Naturally, Sacramento would suffer. Broadening the focus away from the mission reduces it's effectiveness.

    I still view marriage as having the primary role as a basis for starting a family, regardless of whether is is gay or straight.
    Then you have a problem, because expanding the definition to include simply two people who love each other will further decay the connection between marriage and stable family formation.

  3. #573
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm just pointing out the absurdity of your faulty logic.
    Well, when you freak like that and say things that are totally untrue, you only make yourself look absurd.

  4. #574
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No you can't. You won't appease me and many others. You are not appeasing everyone.

    And there are still going to be people who want civil unions to offer less things because it also means less government intervention if they split up or for certain situations.
    Such as?

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I'm just pointing out the absurdity of your faulty logic.
    No you were not, you were snidely and passively-aggressively attacking by implicitly accusing her of the moral equivalency of racism.

  6. #576
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No you were not, you were snidely and passively-aggressively attacking by implicitly accusing her of the moral equivalency of racism.
    YEAH!

  7. #577
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It alters the basis of the unit, which in turn shifts it from focusing on that function. It is as if we were to take the Sacramento Police Force and tell them that instead of solving and preventing crimes in Sacramento, they were now tasked with "world peace". Naturally, Sacramento would suffer. Broadening the focus away from the mission reduces it's effectiveness.
    You just repeated your earlier point. I'm asking how it would alter the basis, and how it shifts it's focus.



    Then you have a problem, because expanding the definition to include simply two people who love each other will further decay the connection between marriage and stable family formation.
    What evidence do you have to support this claim. What data I have read suggest their is no decay when two lesbians or two gay men marry and raise a family.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  8. #578
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    As YOU stated, the terminology used is stupid and unimportant and basically irrelevant to the issue. NOW suddenly it becomes an important little change that we NEED in order to make SSM equal? I'm sorry, but THAT is hilarious. Do you not see the hypocrisy there?
    No hypocrisy. It is just facts. Some change is needed. It doesn't have to be completely gender neutral, but it must include something because it is unreasonable to make a man or woman be referred to as a term used to refer to the opposite gender. And it also makes for the most accurate paperwork to ensure that people's genders are correct. So some change is needed. If they want to make options of "bride/groom and bride/groom, circle appropriate" that is fine or if they would rather just say "person A and person B" that should all be left up to the state because it doesn't make a difference in how any legal institution or paperwork functions or is viewed. But if instead of making these changes, a government would rather change institutions it now has in place completely and in doing so also expect other places to change their own recognition or lack of in order to accommodate the one place's refusal to make a small change that is a huge problem. It is a lot of unnecessary change to try to appease sensibilities that shouldn't reasonably be offended by the small change in the first place.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #579
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, when you freak like that and say things that are totally untrue, you only make yourself look absurd.
    No....your logic makes YOU look absurd. You are either ok with tradition and terminology or you aren't. You are picking and choosing when and where you want to apply them. If you want to stay with marriage "traditions"......and think that terminology is unchangeable...then you have to accept that it was wrong to legalize inter-racial marriage....afterall....traditions and terminology matter, don't they?
    As I suspect.....you are just another hypocrite that is fine to change definitions when you want to....but will cling to "tradition" when it fits your bigoted point of view.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Such as?
    Are you asking me why people enter into civil unions instead of marriages?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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