View Poll Results: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?

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  • Yes, civil unions are an acceptable compromise.

    17 16.19%
  • No, they are not, because:

    55 52.38%
  • The government should not be involved with marriage, at all.

    25 23.81%
  • Other (Please Explain)

    8 7.62%
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Thread: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

  1. #551
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I'm not the one suggesting "gender neutral" terminology, but I do see the necessity for it, even if it is choosing "bride/groom, bride/groom" on the forms. But it is better to make those small changes than it is to have to make huge changes just to avoid changing one form to include gender neutral terminology. But what is on the forms, as long as it covers everyone, should be left up to the individual states, since it doesn't actually affect anyone's rights.
    Well, like I said, I am really only using this terminology thing as an example of some type of change that some might demand in the future. I am all for SSM as long as they are okay with the terms of marriage as they exist. Otherwise, I would think a civil union would be more suitable. That is ONLY reason why I would suggest both be equal as far as benefits go and I still don't understand why it would be such a big deal to make it so that they are equal and so that couples can choose.

    Another point I would like to make is that it may not be just SS couples who choose a civil union option, anyone could hypothetically. There must be other couples who are not too keen on the way a marriage is defined and wish for other options.

  2. #552
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    So you would be fine if inter-racial marriage were outlawed, but people of different races were able to civil union each other?
    Afterall, they would still be able to enjoy all the benefits that same race married people do, while NOT having to change things for others. I mean.....either terminology and traditions matter or they don't right? So you would be fine with going back to our original terminology and traditions before "marriage" was bastardized by allowing different races to marry each other?
    Slow down dude, who said anything about outlawing anything? Certainly not me.

  3. #553
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    See what I mean about bugging out?

  4. #554
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, like I said, I am really only using this terminology thing as an example of some type of change that some might demand in the future. I am all for SSM as long as they are okay with the terms of marriage as they exist. Otherwise, I would think a civil union would be more suitable. That is ONLY reason why I would suggest both be equal as far as benefits go and I still don't understand why it would be such a big deal to make it so that they are equal and so that couples can choose.

    Another point I would like to make is that it may not be just SS couples who choose a civil union option, anyone could hypothetically. There must be other couples who are not too keen on the way a marriage is defined and wish for other options.
    Civil unions exist now because people want something legally different, not because they care two bits about the terminology being used on a form.

    You still can't see that avoiding change to one or possibly a few forms (and that really is the only thing that would change) would cause much bigger changes to a bunch of other forms and laws and institutions. It is just ridiculous to suggest that we avoid changing small things about marriage, that really have nothing to do with how marriage functions, by changing huge things about other contracts and legal arrangements. Civil unions already exist and they are currently a way for people to get a different level of legal recognition from the government because this is what many people want.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #555
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Civil unions exist now because people want something legally different, not because they care two bits about the terminology being used on a form.

    You still can't see that avoiding change to one or possibly a few forms (and that really is the only thing that would change) would cause much bigger changes to a bunch of other forms and laws and institutions. It is just ridiculous to suggest that we avoid changing small things about marriage, that really have nothing to do with how marriage functions, by changing huge things about other contracts and legal arrangements. Civil unions already exist and they are currently a way for people to get a different level of legal recognition from the government because this is what many people want.
    So what you are basically saying is that if gay people want their little "changes" then those should be honored, but to hell with anyone who would prefer that things remain as they are, and that we should spend money to appease that group that wishes to change things on legal contracts, and that is A-Ok?

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Some of you want to have your cake and eat it too, at the expense of anyone who disagrees.

  7. #557
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post

    I have seen that argued, just not yet convincingly.
    Clarify.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Civil unions exist now because people want something legally different, not because they care two bits about the terminology being used on a form.

    You still can't see that avoiding change to one or possibly a few forms (and that really is the only thing that would change) would cause much bigger changes to a bunch of other forms and laws and institutions. It is just ridiculous to suggest that we avoid changing small things about marriage, that really have nothing to do with how marriage functions, by changing huge things about other contracts and legal arrangements. Civil unions already exist and they are currently a way for people to get a different level of legal recognition from the government because this is what many people want.
    What you suggest is not compromise. What you suggest appeases one person and does absolutely nothing but potentially take something away from the other. Things like this are what cause conflict, and that is why it is a good idea that if you are going to appease, then you try to appease everyone.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    So what you are basically saying is that if gay people want their little "changes" then those should be honored, but to hell with anyone who would prefer that things remain as they are, and that we should spend money to appease that group that wishes to change things on legal contracts, and that is A-Ok?
    Where did gay people ask for the changes? Where did anyone put in an official request to change the marriage license just for gay people?

    It is called change for practicality. Things must change a little bit to give same sex couples equal protection under the law. So the sensible move is to change as little as possible. Since changing verbiage on a legal document is much smaller change than changing whole other legal institutions to match one already in existence, then it is reasonable to go with changing the verbiage. This is particularly true when the vast majority of people could really care less about the verbiage being used to describe each party on the form. I didn't even look at what mine called me and my husband til this came up. It just wasn't a big deal and it still isn't.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Where did gay people ask for the changes? Where did anyone put in an official request to change the marriage license just for gay people?

    It is called change for practicality. Things must change a little bit to give same sex couples equal protection under the law. So the sensible move is to change as little as possible. Since changing verbiage on a legal document is much smaller change than changing whole other legal institutions to match one already in existence, then it is reasonable to go with changing the verbiage. This is particularly true when the vast majority of people could really care less about the verbiage being used to describe each party on the form. I didn't even look at what mine called me and my husband til this came up. It just wasn't a big deal and it still isn't.
    Yes, this is all just a hypothetical argument because no one knows what will happen in the future. As to your statement about things must change a little bit to give same sex couples equal protection under the law, I have to scoff at that as you yourself stated that the terminology is stupid and petty and doesn't matter. You are contradicting your own argument.

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