View Poll Results: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?

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  • Yes, civil unions are an acceptable compromise.

    17 16.19%
  • No, they are not, because:

    55 52.38%
  • The government should not be involved with marriage, at all.

    25 23.81%
  • Other (Please Explain)

    8 7.62%
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Thread: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

  1. #541
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    yeah. everyone I've met in the SSM debates is up in arms over the fiscal irresponsibility of paperwork.

  2. #542
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No I understand your point. I think it is petty. It is just fiscally irresponsible for such a petty issue as verbiage on paperwork. Change happens all the time. Sometimes it is good, sometimes bad. But you don't cost the rest of society money and/or treat people differently because you have an issue with potential change. That is wrong, particularly in a time when we have a bad economy and are working to improve it. Trying to prevent slight changes with much bigger, more expensive ones is not going to help the economy.

    And you say "I don't have a problem with SSM as long as they don't try to change the way things are." Yet what you suggest as an alternative would in fact change things from the way they are anyway because "civil union" is already a certain legal contract right now. Making it equal to marriage would change things from the way they are. Then having to make another, differently named contract to take the place of the civil unions so that those who want it have a contract at the level of recognition/protection that they did have with civil unions would change things from the way they are.
    I don't understand what your bugging out about here. What is your problem with making civil union have equal benefits to marriage? That way, if someone doesn't actually want to have a "marriage" (if they want to change things about it), then they can have their civil union and still enjoy all the benefits that married people do. It isn't about separate but equal but about letting people choose while NOT having to change things for others. In reality, if you wanted to change things about marriage, then it is obviously not marriage that you want, but something else like a civil union. You can keep saying terminology and traditions don't matter, but that is strictly an opinion.

    What's so wrong about that?

  3. #543
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah. everyone I've met in the SSM debates is up in arms over the fiscal irresponsibility of paperwork.
    No, many are upset about the verbiage on the paperwork. "They could cause the paperwork wording to be changed from something that it has been for about 30 years so they need to be called something different and we can just change all of the other paperwork to match that change because we don't like change."

    So you don't care about fiscal irresponsibility?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #544
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Funny, on the one hand "terminology isn't important and is petty (as are traditions)." Yet on the other hand, you get "we should have gender-neutral terminology!" Well, which one is it?

  5. #545
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't understand what your bugging out about here. What is your problem with making civil union have equal benefits to marriage? That way, if someone doesn't actually want to have a "marriage" (if they want to change things about it), then they can have their civil union and still enjoy all the benefits that married people do. It isn't about separate but equal but about letting people choose while NOT having to change things for others. In reality, if you wanted to change things about marriage, then it is obviously not marriage that you want, but something else like a civil union. You can keep saying terminology and traditions don't matter, but that is strictly an opinion.

    What's so wrong about that?
    Because it is stupid to have two different words/forms/setups in the place that give the exact same things. It is fiscally irresponsible. It involves a lot more change than simply allowing same sex couples full access to marriage, even if that means some states change their marriage license/paperwork to account for same sex couples. And civil unions already exist for another purpose, to provide couples with a different level of recognition/protection that don't want to be married.

    What do you not understand about your suggestion comes with a lot more change, just in different places of the law and for different people than just opening up marriage to same sex couples, even if that means a little change to the paperwork? It is still going to cause change. Just because that change won't affect you or won't affect certain people doesn't mean it won't be change.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #546
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because it is stupid to have two different words/forms/setups in the place that give the exact same things. It is fiscally irresponsible. It involves a lot more change than simply allowing same sex couples full access to marriage, even if that means some states change their marriage license/paperwork to account for same sex couples. And civil unions already exist for another purpose, to provide couples with a different level of recognition/protection that don't want to be married.

    What do you not understand about your suggestion comes with a lot more change, just in different places of the law and for different people than just opening up marriage to same sex couples, even if that means a little change to the paperwork? It is still going to cause change. Just because that change won't affect you or won't affect certain people doesn't mean it won't be change.
    I don't have a problem with marriage being opened up to same sex couples, but like you stated arguing over the terminology is just stupid, so I am expecting no one will have a problem with existing terminology and customs.

  7. #547
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Funny, on the one hand "terminology isn't important and is petty (as are traditions)." Yet on the other hand, you get "we should have gender-neutral terminology!" Well, which one is it?
    I'm not the one suggesting "gender neutral" terminology, but I do see the necessity for it, even if it is choosing "bride/groom, bride/groom" on the forms. But it is better to make those small changes than it is to have to make huge changes just to avoid changing one form to include gender neutral terminology. But what is on the forms, as long as it covers everyone, should be left up to the individual states, since it doesn't actually affect anyone's rights.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #548
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't have a problem with marriage being opened up to same sex couples, but like you stated arguing over the terminology is just stupid, so I am expecting no one will have a problem with existing terminology and customs.
    Terminology changes and customs change over time. No one is talking about changing customs. In fact, most people have different customs pertaining to marriage already since there are no legal custom requirements pertaining to marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #549
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't understand what your bugging out about here. What is your problem with making civil union have equal benefits to marriage? That way, if someone doesn't actually want to have a "marriage" (if they want to change things about it), then they can have their civil union and still enjoy all the benefits that married people do. It isn't about separate but equal but about letting people choose while NOT having to change things for others. In reality, if you wanted to change things about marriage, then it is obviously not marriage that you want, but something else like a civil union. You can keep saying terminology and traditions don't matter, but that is strictly an opinion.

    What's so wrong about that?
    So you would be fine if inter-racial marriage were outlawed, but people of different races were able to civil union each other?
    Afterall, they would still be able to enjoy all the benefits that same race married people do, while NOT having to change things for others. I mean.....either terminology and traditions matter or they don't right? So you would be fine with going back to our original terminology and traditions before "marriage" was bastardized by allowing different races to marry each other?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  10. #550
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    Re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, many are upset about the verbiage on the paperwork.
    Precisely. It's not about rights and privileges. It's about a word.

    So you don't care about fiscal irresponsibility?
    I find it's invocation here unserious.

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