View Poll Results: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?

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  • Yes, civil unions are an acceptable compromise.

    17 16.19%
  • No, they are not, because:

    55 52.38%
  • The government should not be involved with marriage, at all.

    25 23.81%
  • Other (Please Explain)

    8 7.62%
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Thread: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

  1. #171
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    CriticalThought's Avatar
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    One of the common arugements I've seen from social conservatives is that the creation of a civil union should answer the questions regarding gay marriage.

    Typically, the general idea is this:

    • The civil union will contain the same benefits as a heterosexual marriage
    • The term 'marriage' will only be recognized as between one man and one woman


    So, dear reader, my question to you is: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise with regards to the issue of Same-Sex marriage?

    I'll try to have the answers as applicable as possible.
    Most social conservatives already made that decision given that most states that constitutionally ban same sex marriage also constitutionally ban civil unions. Civil unions only seem to be an acceptable compromise in states in which same sex marriage is a possibility. Also, given there is no federally recognized civil union there really isn't any comparison to be made to marriage so I'm not sure why anyone would consider it a compromise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  2. #172
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    heh..well redress it should be obvious by now, that I dont much worry what anyone likes or does not like..I stand my ground on my own and I state how I feel. Its up to you to decide whether you like that or not...not me. I get to decide what I want to believe
    Im going to ignore the I dont have a right..thats not really worth addressing...I have a right to want what I believe in just like you.

    It would be much easier to avoid homosexual threads..since I know how overbearing and demanding and sarcastic and insulting you all get about it...then call anyone who disagrees with you names...Then blame them for causing it all...well, It should be apparent by now that doesnt make me miss a beat...and the reason I dont avoid these threads is because thats exactly what you all want, to intimidate anyone thats not for every single thing categorically that you want to stfu and im not going to do that anymore than you are...you cant intimidate me on this issue and thats what many attempt to do, hasnt worked and it will never work.
    Im done making disclaimers and trying to explain myself...people on the other side of this issue arent interested in any other point of view and they arent interested in anything any one else that doesnt agree has to say...they just vilify you..they twist your words and your meaning to fit their agenda.
    Im done explaining I dont hate anyone thats gay everyone can just believe whatever it is you want it really doesnt matter.
    Welcome to the human condition. People on your side do exactly the same thing. I recognize that doesn't make it right, but that is simply how cognitive dissonance works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  3. #173
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Actually, I argue that the State has legitimate interest to control marriage. It has every good reason to encourage people to live in the same household to stabilize society, especially when children (adopted, artificially inseminated, or not) are involved. Children in two parent households statistically do better in many of life's activities while growing up (not to say that the many wonderful single parents out there are diminished in their contributions in any way), and on their own. It only makes sense to me to encourage national gay marriage. In addition to my sincerest liberal belief in their [homosexuals] minority rights and the unfairness of their historical persecution, I think Government has a lot to offer through the regulation of marriage in addition to the pact with God an individual may additionally participate in.

    To me, it's more of a shame that religious dogmatism is preventing many from seeing the bigger social conservative possibilities in reestablishing primacy of the two-parent household in a demographic that has largely been denied that ability. Social conservatives have long noted the demise of the two-parent family, liberals talking about a massive amount of babies in wait for adoption, and now that they have the opportunity to amend those perceived wrongs, and they let the Bible get in the way! Such foolishness!
    Okay, but what does this have to do with what I posted/you quoted from me? I was just showing there was a difference between what legal marriage is and what personal/religious marriage is. Nothing really about why government gets involved with marriage.

    And civil unions are different than marriage already. It is meant for people who don't want quite the same level of involvement with each other as marriage involves.

    Allowing people to get married who aren't planning on having or raising children at all isn't going to diminish the benefit of marriage for those who are raising children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #174
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Welcome to the human condition. People on your side do exactly the same thing. I recognize that doesn't make it right, but that is simply how cognitive dissonance works.
    You and OMGitsme are two of the most reasonable individuals on the opposite of the issue from me I pay attention to your posts because they are not full of demanding and flaming..I appreciate that more than you know..
    Please dont say its my side..I dont have a side that infers that im part of a group thing and I am not..I am only one man with one opinion. Im fully aware of anti SSM people can be every bit as bad if not worse but they are not on this forum.. so when I speak here its about here. I dont mean to generalize for everywhere.

  5. #175
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    You and OMGitsme are two of the most reasonable individuals on the opposite of the issue from me I pay attention to your posts because they are not full of demanding and flaming..I appreciate that more than you know..
    Please dont say its my side..I dont have a side that infers that im part of a group thing and I am not..I am only one man with one opinion. Im fully aware of anti SSM people can be every bit as bad if not worse but they are not on this forum.. so when I speak here its about here. I dont mean to generalize for everywhere.
    I think people on this forum often forget that people can disagree with what they believe and still be good people. In the bigger picture this is really all rather absurd. It is often the case that if someone on this forum doesn't support every single gay rights issue they are treated like terrible oppressors even though there are gay people in other countries in the world who are being murdered or imprisoned by their governments. Posters on this forum often tend to ignore the points on which they agree and focus only on those where they disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  6. #176
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    As far as the government is concerned, why does there need to be either?

    Seriously. The only way marriage/unions affect the government in any significant way is taxes. Pass a true flat tax, and marriage/unions become irrelevant. Get the government out of the issue entirely. People can marry or "unionize" to their individual heart's content, and in their own way.
    What about census/legal reasons?
    Examples?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #177
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    It is entirely unnaceptable. It is still both segregating the homosexuals and is against the 1st Amendment. What is the reasoning for stopping gays from marrying? Because it says so in the Bible? Last time I checked, it is unconstitutional to force religious views upon the population, yes? If marriage is to be a strictly religious term than it needs to be just that. It needs to be recognized in only churches and have no benefits from the state if that is the case.
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #178
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    They will not be an acceptable compromise for the lobby, because the lobby is not after actual rights, but rather public acceptance and validation. They don't want to be able to control each others' health decisions (they can already get a medical power of attorney to do that), they want daddy to accept their boyfriend.

  9. #179
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    It is entirely unnaceptable. It is still both segregating the homosexuals and is against the 1st Amendment. What is the reasoning for stopping gays from marrying?
    Because marriage is the central institution by which our society thrives and survives, and weakening it's structures results in a weakening of our ability to do so.

    Last time I checked, it is unconstitutional to force religious views upon the population, yes?
    No. For example, we have blue laws that are perfectly Constitutional, and murder is illegal as well.

  10. #180
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    re: Are civil unions an acceptable compromise for SSM?[W:237]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I think people on this forum often forget that people can disagree with what they believe and still be good people. In the bigger picture this is really all rather absurd. It is often the case that if someone on this forum doesn't support every single gay rights issue they are treated like terrible oppressors even though there are gay people in other countries in the world who are being murdered or imprisoned by their governments. Posters on this forum often tend to ignore the points on which they agree and focus only on those where they disagree.
    I have to say, as a fairly socially conservative fellow, once you stopped accusing me of hatred towards my fellow man (which included family members) and started pointing out that SSM would come with potential social benefits, I have found the arguments in favor (from you) rather more compelling.

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