View Poll Results: How does this one end?

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  • A relatively minor deal will be struck in December

    21 53.85%
  • A major overhaul of our taxes and entitlements will occur

    2 5.13%
  • We will go over the cliff on Jan 1 and make a back-dated deal

    11 28.21%
  • We are in waterfall mode, ladies and gents. Grab your hardhats.

    5 12.82%
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Thread: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

  1. #41
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

     
    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    So jobs aren't plentiful. Do you have any idea why that might be? Do you suppose it might just possibly have something to do with Obama's war on the people who create the jobs? Maybe with his idiotic EPA going rogue? Maybe with killing the pipeline? Maybe with his making the future cost of employees so uncertain via taxes and his Patient Disposal and Unavailable Care Act?

    How do you think jobs get created?
    I think it has a lot to do with the fact that $2.5 trillion is sitting in Corporate coffers at this time. Those are those job creators you talk about. As the 1% has accumulated more wealth, fewer and fewer jobs have been created. The job creators are not those holding the big money is what that says. The pipeline is going to make Oily money more money. The idiotic EPA was there before Obama. Healthcare? We have the most expensive healthcare in the world. Not the best, mind you, the most expensive. Jobs programs at grass roots is what I want to see and you don't do that giving more to the wealthy. That works backwards and the proof is our current economic condition. I'm definitely saying that the people with the money are not the job creators. Is that clear?

  2. #42
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Nope. Jobs get created by supplying products and services that people are willing to pay for. You need to pull your head out of that Keynesian nonsense.
    Uh, that IS demand, the part you left out is having the means to do so. Henry Ford figured this out a long time ago.

    Edit...and just to note, we are not experiencing an economic downturn because there is a "supply" issue of goods. There exists an adequate supply of nearly everything, the issue is demand. People cut back (lack of demand) because of loss of wealth/jobs.....which creates a vicious cycle.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 12-05-12 at 04:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #43
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I'm definitely saying that the people with the money are not the job creators. Is that clear?
    So why are the people without money not creating jobs right and left? Surely we have a lot more people without money now that Obama has been in office for four years, so there should be plenty of jobs available according to your assertion.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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  4. #44
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Uh, that IS demand, the part you left out is having the means to do so. Henry Ford figured this out a long time ago.
    Ah, so demand is supply and supply is demand? Orwell would be proud of you...
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  5. #45
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Ah, so demand is supply and supply is demand? Orwell would be proud of you...
    Ah you are so confused, you think "people are willing to pay for" equals "supply".

    FFS.

    Still wondering....you really believe the econ problem right now.....is a lack of supply of goods?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #46
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    I have come around to thinking the automatic cuts may be the only way we get military spending pruned back to where it needs to be. If the GOP doesn't budge on giving up the tax cuts for the wealthy, I'm willing to give up my small tax cut so they will have to give up their larger tax cut.

    I read today where the White House is preparing for the fiscal cliff if the GOP doesn't give up the tax cuts for the wealthy.

    Let's do this!!!!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #47
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    So why are the people without money not creating jobs right and left? Surely we have a lot more people without money now that Obama has been in office for four years, so there should be plenty of jobs available according to your assertion.
    The people without jobs unemployment benefits ran out and they are dealing in the cash economy. You must have pulled that strawman out of your behind side. Do you realize how friggin' ridiculous you appear?

  8. #48
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The people without jobs unemployment benefits ran out and they are dealing in the cash economy. You must have pulled that strawman out of your behind side. Do you realize how friggin' ridiculous you appear?
    You are the one who claims that people with money are not job creators. Do you realize how friggin' ridiculous you appear?
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  9. #49
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    You are the one who claims that people with money are not job creators. Do you realize how friggin' ridiculous you appear?
    Since the first term of GWShiiteForBrains we have had tax cuts for the wealthy and unemployment has steadily increased. That is not a coincidence. In my area, the unemployed cut firewood, haul junk, buy and sell, mow lawns, do shadetree mechanic work, etc. and would probably form Companies or LLCs or Corporations or whatever except for the cost of legal fees. Gov't incentivized programs make the most jobs and the opportunities are rife and ignored. Renewable energy is most efficient, both on a cost basis and an energy efficiency basis, when done locally. Instead, our gov't wants to spend our hard earned taxes on those mothers of all welfare queens, Nuclear energy and fossil fuel energy. Those are your wealthy companies and now they want us to subsidize a nice pipeline for them. Screw those welfare queens. Nukes just want us to finance all their costs and assume all their liabilities. Banks just want us to bail them out, when in fact, we should be prosecuting them. Hedge funds, vulture capitalists, etc. want money for moving paper and doesn't that make a lot of jobs? I have great admiration for local and national manufacturers that actually build things and create jobs. Create new areas of manufacturing by incentivizing renewables, tax credit local projects, For the most part, if you give big money more money, they will try to find higher paying interest paper, not make jobs. That's what Ronnie Reagan's service economy has reaped. Don't give big money anything and allow competition to be their incentive. Bush and Clinton invented tax breaks/credits that profitted corporations to move their equipment overseas. Keerist, if your head is up your nose, you are not alone.

  10. #50
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    Re: Will we go over the Fiscal Cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Since the first term of GWShiiteForBrains we have had tax cuts for the wealthy and unemployment has steadily increased. That is not a coincidence. In my area, the unemployed cut firewood, haul junk, buy and sell, mow lawns, do shadetree mechanic work, etc. and would probably form Companies or LLCs or Corporations or whatever except for the cost of legal fees. Gov't incentivized programs make the most jobs and the opportunities are rife and ignored. Renewable energy is most efficient, both on a cost basis and an energy efficiency basis, when done locally. Instead, our gov't wants to spend our hard earned taxes on those mothers of all welfare queens, Nuclear energy and fossil fuel energy. Those are your wealthy companies and now they want us to subsidize a nice pipeline for them. Screw those welfare queens. Nukes just want us to finance all their costs and assume all their liabilities. Banks just want us to bail them out, when in fact, we should be prosecuting them. Hedge funds, vulture capitalists, etc. want money for moving paper and doesn't that make a lot of jobs? I have great admiration for local and national manufacturers that actually build things and create jobs. Create new areas of manufacturing by incentivizing renewables, tax credit local projects, For the most part, if you give big money more money, they will try to find higher paying interest paper, not make jobs. That's what Ronnie Reagan's service economy has reaped. Don't give big money anything and allow competition to be their incentive. Bush and Clinton invented tax breaks/credits that profitted corporations to move their equipment overseas. Keerist, if your head is up your nose, you are not alone.

    We should have done what Iceland did -

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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