View Poll Results: Is it racist to ask immigrants to speak English?

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  • Yes

    12 8.28%
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    112 77.24%
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Thread: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

  1. #351
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoopyPaladin View Post
    I hear people talking about this subject all the time, and I'm just curious.

    Is it racist to ask immigrants to speak English (or whatever language the country they immigrated to speaks) when in public places?
    If you ask them to speak the native language when they are among themselves, yes, this is racist (or chauvinistic, as this is not a race matter). But I believe immigrants should be expected to speak the language of the country where they're emigrating to at least well enough to participate here and be able to converse with natives at least about everyday matters.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  2. #352
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Wrong.

    The Obama administration will stop deporting and begin granting work permits to younger illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children and have since led law-abiding lives. The election-year initiative addresses a top priority of an influential Latino electorate that has been vocal in its opposition to administration deportation policies. - Obama Jobs Program: Help Illegals Compete with Americans for Scarce Jobs

    So your "logic" is that, since they do not bend over backwards to remove them, it amounts to bending over backwards helping them? That's just piss poor logic.

    Washington state and New Mexico are the only states that currently allow illegal immigrants to get licenses. Utah allows driving permits. As the fifth most populous state, Illinois would be the biggest state to adopt such a law. - Illinois may grant driver's licenses to illegal immigrants - Yahoo! News
    So 48 states currently do not allow Illegal immigrants to have drivers license. Definitely not bending over backward to help them there. And it's highly debatable whether or not giving someone a divers license qualifies as "bending over backwards to help them", too. I suppose if one rejects all common sense, reason, and rational thought, it is obvioulsy bending over backwards, but for the rest of the world, it probably comes across as something which requires little to no effort or money to accomplish.



    Nearly 2,500 students who are in the country illegally received more than $9.5 million in state higher education grants in fiscal year 2010, the most recent figures available from the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board. There were 16,476 illegal-immigrant students paying resident tuition rates, meaning more than 1 in 7 get state financial aid as well. - Thousands of illegal immigrants paying in-state tuition rates also get Texas financial aid | Texas Regional News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News
    Call me rational, but that doesn't really scream "Bending over backwards" either. It's really a pittance compared to what it would cost to deport them, for example. Especially when you consider the fact that these kids will do more to contribute to society in taxes and such if they are educated than if they aren't.

    The Obama initiative represents more of a reprieve than a redemption for these teens and young adults, many of whom have lived in the United States since childhood. It does not create a path to citizenship but does defer deportations and permit young undocumented immigrants to come out of the shadows. The deportation deferrals last two years, and must then be renewed.

    The work permits essentially allow holders to live in the daylight; they will be able to obtain Social Security numbers and driver’s licenses and apply for financial aid for college. They will be able to open bank accounts and seek certifications to work as nurses and electricians.
    - Today, children of illegal immigrants can come out of the shadows | Get Schooled
    See above. The key here is that the government will profit even more from them being allowed to work.

    Yea deporting a few percentage points more for what? 1 year?
    In what fantasy world of your imaginings does a 25% increase get considered "a few percentage points more"? Seriously.

    If you have to perform insane intellectual acrobatics like that to try and support your position, you have jumped the shark in terms of intellectual integrity.

    It is exactly what you did.
    Again, until you know what it means, you should not use it.

    You act like that was my only argument.
    It is the only one to which this portion of our discussion pertains.

    Go back and read the initial post.
    Jesus Christ. Have you lost all capacity for intellectual honesty? this particular debate has nothing to do with the initial post, just with your statement about the government bending over backward to help illegal immigrants. I made it big because, for some treason that only you and your therapist will ever be able to figure out, you've decided to try and pretend that you didn't say that or something to pretend that I am creating a strawman to argue against.

    Obvioulsy you are in teh mood to play pretend. you are pretending to have a clue abou timmigration. You ar epretending that the "evidence" you posted supports the claims you made. you are prtetending that a 25% increase amounts to 'a few percentage points" and you are pretending that I made a comparison of living conditions of growing up as a black man in the 60's and 70's and being an immigrant, illegal or otherwise.

    It's fun to play pretend, I guess, but let's not pretend that playing pretend counts as making an intelligent argumetn ful of reasoned argumetns and applicable data. It doens't. .

    Yes you did exactly what I said, how this makes me a hypocrite when I have done nothing of the sort is amazing.
    Strawman: a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted

    Now, the key here is that I would have to create the strawman. But I did not say "the government bends over backward to help illegals", which is the argument which I am refuting. You said that. you are the perosn who made that weak, easily refuted argument. just because you have done an abysmal job of defending said position, does not mean I created a strawman.

    Whereas you came out with the following intellectual defecation all on your own: "Because the Irish had it so rough compered to people like me, blacks who grew up in the 60's and 70's. I am sorry the Irish in the 20's and 30's maybe, but the 70's???? I weep for the white immigrants."

    My arugment was that you do not know what you are talking about when it comes down to immigrant populations. You decided to make it a comparison al lon your own, because you created an IMAGINARY argumetn for me and then easily confuted it.

    See how it works? You created the argument in order to belittle it instead of refuting that which was ACTUALLY said.

    Ergo, you are a hypocrite for doing exactly what you falsely accused me of.
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  3. #353
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    How about stats and studies. Here's one study about the problems that arise when immigrants have sub par English skills. As you can see by the study, non-English-speaking immigrant teens have a higher drop-out rate, which in turn leads to poverty, which in turn leads for more people on the system. Why? Because their lack of English holds them back in school. Perhaps this is one contributing factor as to why our students test so low compared to other countries.

    I'm sure I can find more if this isn't good enough.

    A Look at Immigrant Youth: Prospects and Promising Practices

    The United States is facing an unprecedented challenge in serving immigrant youth. Today’s immigrants arrive from widely diverse source countries, and are increasingly likely to resettle in nontraditional states and in rural communities, areas that often have the least experience and/or infrastructure to help students learn English and adapt to their new schools and neighborhoods. With immigration levels sustained at well over one million arrivals per year, immigrant students are entering public schools in record numbers. This has tremendous implications for program development, curricula, and funding.

    Immigrants and language minority students (i.e., English learners) are among the fastest growing populations in U.S. public schools. The Urban Institute finds that the share of children enrolled in kindergarten through 12th grade that is composed of children of immigrants (including both foreign-born children and U.S.-born children with foreign-born parents) more than tripled from 6 to 20 percent between 1970 and 2000. By 2015, if current immigration levels continue, children of immigrants will constitute 30 percent of the nation’s school population.

    The number of students lacking English proficiency has also increased dramatically. Enrollment in 2000-2001 was 4.6 million or about 10 percent of total school enrollment (pre-K through 12th grade), an increase of 105 percent over 1990-1991. The top five languages spoken by limited English proficient (LEP) students in 2000-2001 were Spanish (79%), Vietnamese (2%), Hmong (1.6%), Cantonese (1%) and Korean (1%). As of 2002-2003, approximately 5 million LEP students were enrolled in grades pre-K through 12, nearly double the 2.7 million in 1992-1993.

    Most children of immigrants fare well, but immigrant teens can face unique challenges related to language proficiency, cultural and social adaptation and poverty. Newly arriving immigrant teenagers have a very limited time to learn English, study the required material for high stakes tests, and catch up to their native English speaking peers before graduation. Consequently, dropout rates are significantly higher for immigrants and for LEP youth. On the other hand, immigrant youth who have mastered English often experience family role-reversal, when they are called on as translators or interpreters for family interactions with the outside world. Finally, one in four poor children lives in an immigrant family. Their parents often work multiple jobs or shift work to support their families, which drains the time available to supervise their children or assist with their homework or school activities. This paper outlines the demographics of LEP and immigrant youth and some of the challenges facing them and institutions that serve them, including new requirements in the No Child Left Behind Act for assessments, staffing and parental involvement. The report also identifies some creative programmatic responses to serve LEP and immigrant children and their parents through newcomer schools, parent outreach and training, and after school programs.

    Jesus Christ. Do you honestly think that students comprise an "adequate representation of the non-English-speaking immigrant population."

    At no point did I make any utterly asinine comment such as "Not knowing English won't hurt a child in school", nor did I claim that not knowing English isn't detrimental.

    Seriously, can any of you people present an argument without jumping on a strawman? Seriously, defend the nonsense you say, not some other thing you didn't say. Have some ****ing balls at least.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  4. #354
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    more useless stuff Tucker said.
    I am done with you, you can't see straight on this and are just making emotional ramblings. I will go with the crowed on this as most agree if you are going to be here learn the ****ing language. If you personally don't like it, well to bad for you.

    I will not lose any sleep over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #355
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am done with you, you can't see straight on this and are just making emotional ramblings. I will go with the crowed on this as most agree if you are going to be here learn the ****ing language. If you personally don't like it, well to bad for you.
    Brilliant use of irony.
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  6. #356
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    It's a give and take, I think. It is not unreasonable to expect that immigrants who come to this country learn English. It's the primary language, not only of this country, but of the world. International business happens in English. Major scientific publications are in English. Every airline pilot flying every airplane in the world speaks English to their towers. English is an important language to be able to speak, just as French was a few centuries ago, and Portuguese a few centuries before that.

    However, it is also not unreasonable for us to be able to communicate in other languages. It is discriminatory to prevent a person from engaging in American civil life merely because they don't speak English. It is also counter-productive.

    So, it's a matter of assigning one side or the other the responsibility of enabling communication. It falls to both sides to make it happen.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  7. #357
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It's a give and take, I think. It is not unreasonable to expect that immigrants who come to this country learn English. It's the primary language, not only of this country, but of the world. International business happens in English. Major scientific publications are in English. Every airline pilot flying every airplane in the world speaks English to their towers. English is an important language to be able to speak, just as French was a few centuries ago, and Portuguese a few centuries before that.

    However, it is also not unreasonable for us to be able to communicate in other languages. It is discriminatory to prevent a person from engaging in American civil life merely because they don't speak English. It is also counter-productive.

    So, it's a matter of assigning one side or the other the responsibility of enabling communication. It falls to both sides to make it happen.
    I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation that all people seeking citizenship be required to learn English, but immigrants might be temporary and might not need to ever learn the language, plus learning English in an English speaking has a built in incentive for those who need it to get by, thus there is no reason to make it a requirement for immigration.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  8. #358
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It's a give and take, I think. It is not unreasonable to expect that immigrants who come to this country learn English. It's the primary language, not only of this country, but of the world. International business happens in English. Major scientific publications are in English. Every airline pilot flying every airplane in the world speaks English to their towers. English is an important language to be able to speak, just as French was a few centuries ago, and Portuguese a few centuries before that.

    However, it is also not unreasonable for us to be able to communicate in other languages. It is discriminatory to prevent a person from engaging in American civil life merely because they don't speak English. It is also counter-productive.

    So, it's a matter of assigning one side or the other the responsibility of enabling communication. It falls to both sides to make it happen.
    I agree in general, but I think in the case of Germany, immigrants should be expected to speak at least some German (not all of the time, of course ... when a couple of Turks walk around in the city and speak Turkish, there is no problem with that). But as Germany has not really a situation where there is a non-German majority anywhere, Turkish people who don't learn some German cut themselves off of all benefits this society has to offer, and of the opportunity of integrating.

    No German business owner will hire an immigrant who does not speak German, no school will graduate a student who does not speak German. And no German can become friend of an immigrant who does not speak German.

    So yeah, if you're coming here and want to be part of our society, it's a practical matter that you learn some German. Doesn't need to be on Goethe's level, of course, but you should be able to get along here.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #359
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Yes, people speaking in any language in public should have the common decency to use restraint when speaking. Anger and rudeness goes beyond words, it shows in many other ways including our tone. That is just simple basic common sense.
    The Definition of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein

  10. #360
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    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Jesus Christ. Do you honestly think that students comprise an "adequate representation of the non-English-speaking immigrant population."

    At no point did I make any utterly asinine comment such as "Not knowing English won't hurt a child in school", nor did I claim that not knowing English isn't detrimental.

    Seriously, can any of you people present an argument without jumping on a strawman? Seriously, defend the nonsense you say, not some other thing you didn't say. Have some ****ing balls at least.
    Well then what exactly is your point and what are you arguing about?

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