View Poll Results: Is it racist to ask immigrants to speak English?

Voters
145. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    12 8.28%
  • No

    112 77.24%
  • Other -- explain

    21 14.48%
Page 33 of 39 FirstFirst ... 233132333435 ... LastLast
Results 321 to 330 of 383

Thread: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

  1. #321
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,940

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What difference does it make if someone never wants to learn how to read? The only person it has any effect on is them. If they don't see learning how to read as beneficial, then why should they do it?
    I agree with this.

    Which is why I can't stand people who basically would then suggest that becaues THAT person doesn't want to bother to learn to read we need to go out of our way to accomodate them and create a situation where they don't have any benefit to learning. Or more, those who attempt to suggest that by attacking, insulting, and degrading those who suggest that society as a whole needs to change to accomodate a handful of individuals who choose not to take the effort.

  2. #322
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,940

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    If they're speaking to you and you can't understand them and you're asking them such a thing, definitely not in terms of the action.

    If they're just standing about talking and you interject to ask them such a thing, and it doesn't matter what language they're speaking, then it's not "racist" though I would probably say it's a bit xenophobic.

    Now the method in which one says it in any circumstance could be racist. But I don't think the action itself is inherently a racist one

  3. #323
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,551

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What difference does it make if someone never wants to learn how to read? The only person it has any effect on is them. If they don't see learning how to read as beneficial, then why should they do it?
    That assumes one will not thus qualify for public assistance due to their lack of "income opportunity". Your ability to be happily unemployable ends where my obligation to support your lazy rear end, at the welfare office, begins. If we required a HS education (or GED) to get any public assistance then perhaps your argument would be valid, BTW that HS education includes proficiency in English.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #324
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,499

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I agree with this.

    Which is why I can't stand people who basically would then suggest that because THAT person doesn't want to bother to learn to read we need to go out of our way to accommodate them and create a situation where they don't have any benefit to learning. Or more, those who attempt to suggest that by attacking, insulting, and degrading those who suggest that society as a whole needs to change to accommodate a handful of individuals who choose not to take the effort.
    Repeated for truth. Wish I could have said it so well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #325
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Translations on the internet are often that way.

    The problem is some people come here and instead of wanting to be part of our society, they want to reap the befits give nothing back. Then they have the nerve to thumb there noses at our society and system. I know it is not a majority, at least I hope not, but far to many.
    Reap the benefits but never give anything back!?!?

    Let me tell you about my wife's grandmother. A middle-aged Sicilian woman of the old school who came here with her husband and children in the 60's because her husband needed work to feed that family, only to have her husband get killed by a drunk driver less than a year later when he was riding his bicycle home from his factory job, thus leaving their 19 year old son (who only has a grade school education) as the family's main breadwinner. Back in Sicily, she was not given an education of outside of "traditional female household tasks" because women didn't get educations in those days.

    Her American dream was destroyed by the careless act of a man who never even spent one day in jail for his crimes because he had political connections in Chicago. But she stayed here, not for herself, but for her children's sake. For her future grandchildren. She didn't learn English. Instead, she turned toward people from her own culture who could help her out. Her oldest son, my father-in law, became the patriarch of the family, helping to put his two younger brothers (who were only in grade school at this time) through college.

    Now fast forward 40 or so years. The 19-year old with only a grade school education just retired this year after putting in 40+ years as an electrician, and being given a huge retirement bonus from his company because, as they put it, "You made us a lot of money over the years. We hate to see you go."

    His younger brothers went on to become a vice president at a major bank and a very successful broker, both of whom easily qualify as being "1 percenters". They probably pay more in taxes than 50 average Americans combined.

    Yet here she is, an elderly immigrant who barely speaks English even after 40+ years in this country. I guess because she never really assimilated herself, she didn't give back, though, right?

    I may be jaded because I grew up in Chicago, no matter as I have seen it.
    You grew up in Chicago outside of the immigrant culture. Whereas I grew up in Chicago inside of the immigrant culture. I know the stories of why these immigrants came here. I know the stories of what they have dealt with while they were here. I know their struggles, I know their woes. I know what they came here with (rarely more than a work ethic and some hope), and more importantly, what they didn't come here with (Things that we often take for granted, like a 9th grade education).

    These aren't retirees who come here with money and resources. They are people who have to struggle for everything they get in life. They usually don't do it for themselves. Instead they do it for their families, either back home or here or even the ones they hope to one day have. My father used to say to me, "I could have stayed back home and went on the dole like other people did, but where would that have left ye?"

    He didn't have to come here, of course. He made a choice. But it's not an easy choice, nor is it an easy road. It requires hard work and determination. They have to leave their family behind without knowing when or if they will ever see them, or in some cases like my father's, speak to them, again (my father's money that he sent back paid for his parents' first phone). They often start off with nothing, literally nothing, because all of the money they had was spent getting here in the first place.

    My father came out here utterly alone and broke. If it wasn't for the Irish community, he'd have certainly failed, because no Americans were willing to hire this uneducated Mick who could sheer a sheep in no time, but didn't have much in the way of non-farm skills. He had a keen mind, a hell of a work ethic, and a very strong back, though. So, through the Irish community, he got connected with some Italians who were working in the concrete business and pretty much needed a mule to haul the concrete forms around 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. He was lucky he was Irish, cause he definitely didn't have time to learn English. He did pick up some Italian during that time on the job, though. And he also learned the concrete trade (which was far more important than learning English at that point).

    In his spare time he went out with some of the other Irish guys he knew on side jobs as often as he could, learning plumbing, carpentry, masonry... useful things that would get him more work.

    Like I said, he's lucky he was Irish. If he was from a country that didn't speak English, he'd have had an even tougher time than he did.

    Then on top of that we have the government bending over backwards to help illegals etc while our own people get the shaft.
    Our government does not bend over backwards to help immigrants of any stripe. I'm not sure where this myth came from, but ask any immigrant whether or not the US government has been helpful to them and I'd be shocked if anyone but the political refugees says yes.

    If you are going to live someplace, learn the language. Show at least a little respect for the country that took you in.
    That's the problem. People seem to think they do something for these immigrants, when we in truth we show them no respect and expect them to suck our balls in return for allowing them to sully our lives with their very presence. We put forth no effort to understand their situation, we simply assume that we've made it great for them and that they owe us something. They don't owe us ****. We're a better country for them being here. They, and those like them who have come here throughout time, are why America became great in the first place.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  6. #326
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I agree with this.

    Which is why I can't stand people who basically would then suggest that becaues THAT person doesn't want to bother to learn to read we need to go out of our way to accomodate them and create a situation where they don't have any benefit to learning. Or more, those who attempt to suggest that by attacking, insulting, and degrading those who suggest that society as a whole needs to change to accomodate a handful of individuals who choose not to take the effort.
    You don't have to do a damned thing to accommodate people who don't know how to read, Zyph. Society doesn't really do a damned thing to help them either. We certainly do not go out of our way to help them not read.

    And American society doesn't go out of it's way to accommodate people who do not know English, either. I mean, companies do a lot to get the non-English speaker's business, but they aren't accommodating them, they are trying to get their money and business.

    Because let's face it, that's the thing that pisses people off the most. Pressing one for English when they call some automated system for their cable company or pretty much everything these days. ****ing free market! I hate it! They do whatever they can to increase their profits, even when it offends my sensibilities of what should or should not be the case!

    As far as the government goes, they do what needs to be done to accommodate understanding. Government forms in different languages is not simply done because people don't speak English, it's done because that is usually very important information and we don't want there to be any miscommunication due to translation errors. Someone can be a fluent speaker of English but not the best at understanding how to read it. Especially when there is legal terminology involved. By using native languages with people in our government, we aren't accommodating them in not learning English, we are accommodating them in understanding what it means to be in the US.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  7. #327
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That assumes one will not thus qualify for public assistance due to their lack of "income opportunity". Your ability to be happily unemployable ends where my obligation to support your lazy rear end, at the welfare office, begins.
    I assure you, your tax burden does almost nothing to help anyone on welfare. You don't need to feel victimized anymore. You've probably lost more money in the dryer than you have lost on taxes going toward welfare.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  8. #328
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If being "bilingual" in only English/Spanish is a "job requrement" in the USA then one must ask just why that is.
    The free market. It's a bitch.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #329
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,940

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    You don't have to do a damned thing to accommodate people who don't know how to read, Zyph. Society doesn't really do a damned thing to help them either. We certainly do not go out of our way to help them not read.
    Wasn't saying I do. I also have no issue with society attempting to help a person learn to read.

    If you want to learn to read I'd love society to help with that, because people being able to read benefits society as a whole. If you don't want to learn it, that's fine...but I see no reason why society should strive to make it easier on you because YOU'VE choosen not to undertake something that would benefit you.

    And American society doesn't go out of it's way to accommodate people who do not know English, either. I mean, companies do a lot to get the non-English speaker's business, but they aren't accommodating them, they are trying to get their money and business.
    Oh, there's ABSOLUTELY a monetary business side of this. And I don't begrudge businesses that take advantage to that.

    However, in your quest to get on your holier-than-thou immigratoin soap box you managed to completely overlook what my actual point was.

    My issue is with those that feel like we must FORCE or COERCE society to accomodate those who make CHOICES...as you yourself noted it was...to not do things that will benefit themselves and society simply for the purpose of accomodation their self imposed limitation. AND, my far bigger issue, are those who seek to attack, degrade, and berate people as their method of ushering in such a change.

    If you want to personally put up pictures along with words on your menu because you feel for the immigrant community around you, more power to you. If you want to do it because it'll make you more money, fine. If you want to suggest someone else do it to help their business or help immigrants, no problem. If you want to make it into some kind of mandated regulation to run that kind of business, or if you want to decry the store owner as a racist or a bigot or a xenophobe, as your method of coercing them to your view through attacks THEN I have an issue with it.


    Government forms in different languages is not simply done because people don't speak English, it's done because that is usually very important information and we don't want there to be any miscommunication due to translation errors.
    And while in a perfect world I'd rather have everything in english on government forms, I understand the need fo rmultiple languages in these kind of situations. Especially with things such as...for example...ballot initiatives where it's written in such goobledygook that even native english speakers often don't understand what the hell they're saying.

  10. #330
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,551

    Re: Is it racist to ask for immigrants to speak English?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I assure you, your tax burden does almost nothing to help anyone on welfare. You don't need to feel victimized anymore. You've probably lost more money in the dryer than you have lost on taxes going toward welfare.
    That "welfare" (means tested entitlements) is now costing the U.S. treasury nearly $1 trillion per year.

    Welfare State: 69 Means-tested Programs and $940 Billion in Annual Spending

    Growth of Welfare Entitlements: Principles of Reform and the Next Steps
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

Page 33 of 39 FirstFirst ... 233132333435 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •