View Poll Results: Obama will take our guns away

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Thread: Obama will take your guns away

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    It would be a very good thing if your President took away your silly popguns, but I fear that the Merchants of Death are almost as powerful as AIPAC amongst your various masters.
    Aesop's Fox alert

  2. #42
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    I think its safe to say that there is little indication that Obama really cares about the second amendment one way or another.

  3. #43
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtledude
    Not directly

    but what Obama can and will do is to appoint more judges like Sotomayor who do not believe there is an individual right of citizens to own guns. that means if Heller comes up again and Kennedy has been replaced by another anti gun justice, our gun rights are in jeopardy Furthermore there are many restrictions that many of us believe are unconstitutional that are in place but of dubious validity such as the Hughes Amendment which banned the legal registration and ownership of post May 19, 1986 automatic weapons Another couple anti gun justices will mean that many restrictions less draconian than outright bans of most guns might be sustained

    Furthermore the executive orders Obama can impose can cause massive problems. Clinton banned the importation of chinese made weapons and ammo. Many of the best brands of low cost high quality ammo come from Mexico (Aguila) Serbia (Privi Prtizan) Russia (Brown bear, wolf) etc and Obama can prevent that through executive order which would drive up the cost of shooting substantially.
    Perhaps for the first time, Turtledude, you and I are in substantial agreement on something. It would be very foolish indeed for the citizens of the U.S. to tolerate gun control. In general, almost every time governments have tried to control the access citizens have to weapons, it hasn't worked out so well for the common folk. The one exception I can think of is the effort to control nuclear/chemical/biological weapons--I suspect generally it wouldn't be good for most average people to own nuclear warheads.

  4. #44
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    I'm not overly worried in the short term... I think most Democrat politicians have learned that more gun control is NOT popular and hurts them in elections.

    But as Turtle mentioned, the notion of Obama appointing judges to SCOTUS that are anti-gun causes me some concerns for longer-term issues.

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  5. #45
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    It would be a very good thing if your President took away your silly popguns, but I fear that the Merchants of Death are almost as powerful as AIPAC amongst your various masters.

    Your ignorance of American culture and people is as vast as the Grand Canyon. It is voters who have let the politicians know that more gun control is unwelcome, not any imagined gun-merchant lobby.

    But you're only here to bait and flame, so whatever....

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  6. #46
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Sorry for the length:

    I might have said this before recently, but I think strict adherence to the Constitution is overrated. I know that sounds horrible, but I just think times were different in the 18th century to the point that laws that might have made perfect sense then don't make sense now. The "right to bear arms" doesn't really have the same the implications it used to.

    Consider several things:
    1. the type of arms available then compared to now (you couldn't exactly massacre a theater full of people with a flintlock musket)
    2. the US was a smaller, less diverse, and a more vulnerable country back then
    3. guns were not as widely produced as they are now
    4. the amount of massacres and shootings that occur these days compared to back then

    All those things carry a lot of weight in this debate. This doesn't mean we need to have an all out ban on all guns, and at the end of the day it's about the person holding the gun rather than the gun itself. Plus, I can see why people like guns and I definitely agree with the need for some sort of defense at home, for defense against tyranny, or for when the apocalypse hits. However, why do we realistically need military grade equipment for civilian use? Assault weapons? Stuff that is intended more for insurgency rather than personal defense? Why allow the craziest folks access to this stuff? We can either increase control on more powerful guns or take steps to improve education and stuff to prevent this from happening in the first place, but only one of those things is realistic in the short-term. Only one of those things can really prevent shootings and pointless deaths now.

    So, here is where I disagree with Obama (I think), because I'm not entirely sure where he would draw the line on gun control. You'd think Obama's admin wants all guns banned all the time (which I disagree with), but it's tough to interpret that considering his actions as president. Going back to what you said, I'm not entirely sure where the SCOTUS would draw the line either. So as frustrating as the POTUS' stance on guns has been for pro-gun folks, it's been similarly frustrating to people like me to. I just don't know what to think about this sometimes, but it's worth at least doing something rather than doing nothing.
    since Civilian police officers are issued military grade "assault weapons" (when you use that term you pretty much demonstrate to those who are well versed in arms issues that your knowledge is limited because that term is meaningless) because various governmental units have determined that such weapons are ideal for SELF DEFENSE BY THOSE WHO HAVE NO GREATER RIGHT TO KILL THAN OTHER CIVILIANS that alone justifies us OTHER CIVILIANS to be able to own the same weapons.

    saying such weapons are MORE POWERFUL again demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding as well.

    doing something for the sake of doing something has cost society millions of lives.

    wisdom is understanding some problems cause solutions that cost more than the problems they are designed to solve

  7. #47
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There have been rulings on the second amendment since at least 1820. That would be...about 200 years.
    but sadly for you it was not until Heller that the USSC determined it to be an individual right. indeed, the main point in one of the Dissent (JPS) was that the COURT OF APPEALS precedent was that there was NO INDIVIDUAL RIGHT RECOGNIZED>

    sorry but you are wrong here

  8. #48
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Just curious, do you think Obama will somehow take your guns away?

    Extra points if you can tell me what the last four options have in common.
    Congress won't allow it.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  9. #49
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    Perhaps for the first time, Turtledude, you and I are in substantial agreement on something. It would be very foolish indeed for the citizens of the U.S. to tolerate gun control. In general, almost every time governments have tried to control the access citizens have to weapons, it hasn't worked out so well for the common folk. The one exception I can think of is the effort to control nuclear/chemical/biological weapons--I suspect generally it wouldn't be good for most average people to own nuclear warheads.
    I don't think nukes are recognized by the second amendment because they are not individual or even squad sized weapons. secondly the commerce clause and other federal interests are clearly involved because the use of such weapons has interstate and international ramifications

    so IMHO nukes or WMDs are neither guaranteed by the second or something that congress was not delegated power to control. The international and interstate nature clearly empowers congressional jurisdiction

  10. #50
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    Re: Obama will take your guns away

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    since Civilian police officers are issued military grade "assault weapons" (when you use that term you pretty much demonstrate to those who are well versed in arms issues that your knowledge is limited because that term is meaningless)
    I never claimed to be an expert on guns, but the term "assault weapons" is used commonly enough for you to know what I meant.

    because various governmental units have determined that such weapons are ideal for SELF DEFENSE BY THOSE WHO HAVE NO GREATER RIGHT TO KILL THAN OTHER CIVILIANS that alone justifies us OTHER CIVILIANS to be able to own the same weapons.
    If less people had access to such weapons it would be unnecessary.

    saying such weapons are MORE POWERFUL again demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding as well.
    So something like a 9mm Walther is equally as powerful and can do as much damage within a certain amount of time as an M4? Would that Aurora, CO shooter have done as much harm if he was using a pistol as opposed to the rifle he did use?

    doing something for the sake of doing something has cost society millions of lives.
    I see your point, but do we just have no control at all? We just sit quietly while more and more crazy folks have access to weapons that can deal a lot of damage to a lot of people?

    wisdom is understanding some problems cause solutions that cost more than the problems they are designed to solve
    This is, again, why I said an all out ban on all guns is unnecessary and unrealistic. That's where I think I disagree with the Obama admin because of what they might do.


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