What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

abortion.

Mr. E said:

abortion.

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Its not part of the thread, but to be honest probably more effective than A or B. Abortions stops crime before it starts. Sad but true.

shiang said:

No I mean to yourself.

If you're in a gang then the likely hood of a gun being useful is high. In which case I would recommend it. For your average Joe you're more likely to hurt than protect yourself with a gun.

Also people aren't the most rational and brightest. Often times people shoot before thinking, happened plenty of times.


To OP. Should probably strike "revolver" and replace with "gun"

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How is that true since 2007 we have 270 million plus firearms in this country with Americans buying 4.5 million and out of the 8 million new guns made each year? Are these being struck by lightning, winning the lottery odds, or being a astronaut odds?

U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people | Reuters
U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.

About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.

shiang said:

911 enter is probably easier than using a revolver,.

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Wouldn't dialing 911 involving answering questions like the nature of your emergency and then waiting for an unknown amount of time for the cops to show up? Cops can't lock onto your cellphone and teleport themselves to your location.

particularly for someone who isn't trained or normally uses guns.

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Why would someone buy a gun for self defense and not practice with it?

Though if the assaulter doesn't care about consequences than a revolver would be more effective

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Wouldn't the assaulter attacking you or getting ready to attack you be an indicator that he already doesn't give a rats ass about consequences?

Goshin said:

In all honesty, it is hard to say exactly.

Many small-fry, minor annoyances and wannabe-badguys could be scared off my putting the cellphone to your ear and saying "I just dialed 911".

Determined attackers, hardened criminals, and serious hardcases will laugh, take the phone away and insert it for you as a suppository.


OTOH, a gun in the hands of someone who looks like they'll use it is an entirely different matter. Most do not want to go there. There are easier prey in the sea.

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It is complicated actually, particularly depending on the state. The legal justification necessary to pulling out a cell phone is none. It may require quite a bit of justification to reveal a revolver.

I've always wondered what if someone seemingly might to become a perp was informed "I just took your picture and forwarded to my home and the police department, making it a permanent record for the cell phone company. Taking the phone wouldn't do you any good." If the person laughed and continued - time for the revolver to come out.

The correct answer is neither. Crime is a complex issue and the suggestion that cellphones or firearms stop crime is a farce. The violent crime has already occurred the fire arm/phone is only a response to the crime. Educating at risk youth, providing opportunities to those on the lower end of the economic ladder reduce crime. Family planning is also a large factor into whether a child will grow up and become a violent offender. To be fair this thread seems to be a less then subtle pro-gun idea that possessing such weapons stops crime. It doesn't. We have the freedom to possess guns in this country. We don't need to "rationalize" this behavior.

Mr. E said:

The correct answer is neither.

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Incorrect. the question compares the two, and unless they are the same, one must be greater than the other.
A or B - whcih do you pick?

H. Lee White said:

Incorrect. the question compares the two, and unless they are the same, one must be greater than the other.
A or B - whcih do you pick?

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Re-read my post for clarity. Insufficient options.

Mr. E said:

To be fair this thread seems to be a less then subtle pro-gun idea that possessing such weapons stops crime. It doesn't. .

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Odd. I've already stopped at least two crimes with mine.


Perhaps yours are not working correctly. :mrgreen:

Goshin said:

Odd. I've already stopped at least two crimes with mine.


Perhaps yours are not working correctly. :mrgreen:

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If guns didnt stop crime...cops would carry water pistols

lpast said:

If guns didnt stop crime...cops would carry water pistols

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Cops respond to crime. They don't "stop" crime. I suppose by stop, you mean that they apprehend the criminal (who has already committed the crime). Overall that is a rather simplistic approach to a complex issue.

Goshin said:

Odd. I've already stopped at least two crimes with mine.


Perhaps yours are not working correctly. :mrgreen:

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Guns saved the life of my oldest daughter and I.

Properly used, a gun will stop any crime.

Especially shotguns, magnums, 45 ACPs and 30.06s. Its not the size of the gun that matters, but the size of the bullet and - where it goes. Ideally the head center or chest center. More is better than less.

Mr. E said:

Cops respond to crime. They don't "stop" crime. I suppose by stop, you mean that they apprehend the criminal (who has already committed the crime). Overall that is a rather simplistic approach to a complex issue.

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Well, most of us are simplistic people, aren't we? I am anyway.

Mr. E said:

Cops respond to crime. They don't "stop" crime. I suppose by stop, you mean that they apprehend the criminal (who has already committed the crime). Overall that is a rather simplistic approach to a complex issue.

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Please..I dont know you Mr E but dont make statements with no substance...cops prevent crime and stop crime EVERY SINGLE DAY...do they do it on every single incident that happens...of course not...
Many calls to 911 are responded to while the crime is still in progress and the police arriving on the scene take appropriate action. Of course there are times we are too late...I dont want to get into this much deeper but just believe police stop many crimes.

lpast said:

Please..I dont know you Mr E but dont make statements with no substance...cops prevent crime and stop crime EVERY SINGLE DAY...do they do it on every single incident that happens...of course not...
Many calls to 911 are responded to while the crime is still in progress and the police arriving on the scene take appropriate action. Of course there are times we are too late...I dont want to get into this much deeper but just believe police stop many crimes.

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Cops are certainly valuable to society and they have a place in regards to enforcing our laws. However, as to crime. They are an 'enforcement' component. They do save lives, arrest criminals and in general are a force of good. As to actual crime though, they do not prevent or stop crime. They respond and enforce applicable law in so doing they might prevent the criminal from breaking further laws but the initial crime has already occured. The criminal is still in existence committing the crime. The phrase "stopping crime" really should be preventing any crime from having occurred. In which case both the cellphone and firearm are rather inadequate. I've taken a few criminal justice courses that cover this topic.

I would choose B., but I wouldn't use a revolver - just saying.

I think the BEST deterrent is being aware of your surroundings and using common sense when you are in an area/position that could be dangerous. Best not to get yourself in that sort of situation to begin with. Aware of your surroundings, driving with the doors locked, getting keys at the ready when walking to your vehicle - parking under lighted parking spots - checking in and around your vehicle as you approach it, etc...

TheGirlNextDoor said:

I would choose B., but I wouldn't use a revolver - just saying.

I think the BEST deterrent is being aware of your surroundings and using common sense when you are in an area/position that could be dangerous. Best not to get yourself in that sort of situation to begin with. Aware of your surroundings, driving with the doors locked, getting keys at the ready when walking to your vehicle - parking under lighted parking spots - checking in and around your vehicle as you approach it, etc...

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Why wouldnt you use a revolver...if your adept with handguns and you trained to use a pistol then by all means use a pistol they certainly have their benefits...I always recommend for novices they use a revolver...for various reaons. They are safer, there is no safety to worry about...they are easier to learn to use and they are more accurate as rule than pistols for novices.
Revolvers take less care and are easier to clean and maintain. I have both but Ive been trained with both, when I first got my job it was all revolvers and we made the transition to pistols...I to this day like revolvers and im probably most comfortable with one...

Mr. E said:

Cops respond to crime. They don't "stop" crime. I suppose by stop, you mean that they apprehend the criminal (who has already committed the crime). Overall that is a rather simplistic approach to a complex issue.

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Once in a while they do. I stopped a couple when I was a cop.


Granted, mostly they just pick up the pieces and write the reports.... which is yet another reason to go armed for the private citizen...

lpast said:

Why wouldnt you use a revolver...if your adept with handguns and you trained to use a pistol then by all means use a pistol they certainly have their benefits...I always recommend for novices they use a revolver...for various reaons. They are safer, there is no safety to worry about...they are easier to learn to use and they are more accurate as rule than pistols for novices.
Revolvers take less care and are easier to clean and maintain. I have both but Ive been trained with both, when I first got my job it was all revolvers and we made the transition to pistols...I to this day like revolvers and im probably most comfortable with one...

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After my Dad passed, my Mom lived alone for a time. She had his two old Smith and Wesson revolvers, and I took her shooting to make sure she could still hit something and defend herself if someone broke in.

Turns out, she couldn't manage the trigger pull on a double-action revolver. For her it was like trying to lift a barbell with one finger.

I swapper her a small modern semi-auto, DAO, for the better revolver, and she could handle the trigger on it with ease. In no time at all I had her putting all 7 rounds into the K-zone of a silhouette at 7 paces... good enough for an elderly lady's last resort.

I suspect a good many women probably prefer the lighter trigger of a semiauto to the heavier pull of a DA revolver. :shrug:

Mr. E said:

Cops are certainly valuable to society and they have a place in regards to enforcing our laws. However, as to crime. They are an 'enforcement' component. They do save lives, arrest criminals and in general are a force of good. As to actual crime though, they do not prevent or stop crime. They respond and enforce applicable law in so doing they might prevent the criminal from breaking further laws but the initial crime has already occured. The criminal is still in existence committing the crime. The phrase "stopping crime" really should be preventing any crime from having occurred. In which case both the cellphone and firearm are rather inadequate. I've taken a few criminal justice courses that cover this topic.

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I've taken some criminal justice courses too. And went to the Police Academy. And served several years in law enforcement. And lived nearly five decades in a relatively high-crime area, despite the fact that most of the county is rural.

Granted there are many factors involved in preventing crime or stopping it once someone attempts to initiate. Awareness is key; avoidance of high-risk situations and behaviors also. Security precautions like locking doors and using alarms are important. Knowing how to recognize a developing threat and moving to avoid "standing on the X" is a big one. Making use of available law enforcement and criminal justice resources is good. Dogs are excellent as both alarms and deterrents, and sometimes even self-guided defensive weapons.

But when you come down to it, there are times (relatively rare for most people I grant, but it happens) when nothing but an effective personal weapon (and typically the most effective is the firearm), along with a modicum of skill and a helping of will to use it, will actually stop the crime and save your ass. I've done it more than once, I've seen it done more than once, and I've seen the aftermath on MANY occasions... a gun in the hands of a citizen who looks willing and able to use it is more likely to cause a criminal to break off their attack and retreat than anything else, and if they don't retreat it is the most effective means of STOPPING them in their tracks in most situations.

Cold hard facts: I stopped a couple of crimes as a cop by being armed. I stopped at least two crimes in progress as a private citizen by being armed. My Dad did the same once, my mother also. Several of my kinfolk have done likewise, and some of my neighbors. Last year one of my neighbors shot a burglar, who survived but was later apprehended by police. Several months ago an armed robbery at a local Waffle House was stopped by an armed citizen who shot one perp dead; the other fled. Our county Sheriff has advised citizens to arm themselves, get carry permits, and be prepared to defend themselves as the best means of stopping violent crime. Several years ago we had a rash of home invasions and hot burglaries in my State... our AG issued a position paper and a public announcement in support of citizens shooting home invaders... soon a couple of them WERE shot dead and the crime wave came to an abrupt halt.


Statistics be damned, there is no question in my mind that guns do indeed have a strong utility in stopping or preventing crime.

lpast said:

Why wouldnt you use a revolver...if your adept with handguns and you trained to use a pistol then by all means use a pistol they certainly have their benefits...I always recommend for novices they use a revolver...for various reaons. They are safer, there is no safety to worry about...they are easier to learn to use and they are more accurate as rule than pistols for novices.
Revolvers take less care and are easier to clean and maintain. I have both but Ive been trained with both, when I first got my job it was all revolvers and we made the transition to pistols...I to this day like revolvers and im probably most comfortable with one...

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Well an example would be here where most pistols and revolvers are illegal and carrying concealed weapons is also illegal. I know a lot people who have knives though.

Mr. E said:

Re-read my post for clarity. Insufficient options.

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Re-read the question and my follow-up -- one must be greater than the other.
You're simply avoiding the issue. Why?

Pretty easy choice to me...

A Cell Phone isn't going to stop an attacker....a gun sure as hell will

Goshin said:

After my Dad passed, my Mom lived alone for a time. She had his two old Smith and Wesson revolvers, and I took her shooting to make sure she could still hit something and defend herself if someone broke in.

Turns out, she couldn't manage the trigger pull on a double-action revolver. For her it was like trying to lift a barbell with one finger.

I swapper her a small modern semi-auto, DAO, for the better revolver, and she could handle the trigger on it with ease. In no time at all I had her putting all 7 rounds into the K-zone of a silhouette at 7 paces... good enough for an elderly lady's last resort.

I suspect a good many women probably prefer the lighter trigger of a semiauto to the heavier pull of a DA revolver. :shrug:

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That could be a problem for sure...I didnt run into that much as I mostly dealt with younger people...but you could have had the trigger pull reduced to a manageable level easily...you should always get your revolver worker from factory...the factories dont make allowances for individual style and needs....but hey goshin whatever works...Im not against pistols..in my experience they were for everyone

no vote
Has "more violent crime" been slowed down ? If so, why?
Its not due to the gun nor the cell phone nor even the camera.
A better education system with "early intervention" contribute.
I'd really work hard with "early intervention"
However, I do favor the shop keeper having the gun AND the necessary training.