View Poll Results: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

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  • Choice A: Cell Phone

    14 29.17%
  • Choice B: Revolver

    34 70.83%
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Thread: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

  1. #21
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    A: Potential victim producing a cell phone and promising to call the police to report the attacker, should he not go away.
    B: Potential victim producing a revolver and promising to perforate the attacker, should he not go away.
    Hello everyone!

    In answering the poll question "What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?" I answered Choice B: Revolver.

    A fairly decent description of violent crime can be found on Wikipedia: "A violent crime or crime of violence is a crime in which the offender uses or threatens to use violent force upon the victim. This entails both crimes in which the violent act is the objective, such as murder, as well as crimes in which violence is the means to an end, (including criminal ends) such as robbery. Violent crimes include crimes committed with weapons."

    The article narrows the definition even further when speaking about violent crime in the U.S.: "The United States Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) counts five categories of crime as violent crimes: murder, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault."

    Looking at the question (using the word "stopped" and not the word "prevented") would to me indicate ending a violent crime that has already begun; and in such an instance I do not think that a cell phone would stop a criminal once they have initiated such a crime.

    I only bring up such detail about the words because after reading the question and then the two ready made answers, I felt that there was only one reasonable answer in the first place (which for me shut down the debate before it was able to start! ).
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  2. #22
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    ask the asshole whose colon and rectum were "violently displaced" from a contact hit of a PMC jacketed 124 grain Hollowpoint hitting him at about 1150 FPS out of a second generation Smith and Wesson 469 Semi Automatic handgun

  3. #23
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    More likely to do harm to the attacker you mean... which is kinda the point...
    No I mean to yourself.

    If you're in a gang then the likely hood of a gun being useful is high. In which case I would recommend it. For your average Joe you're more likely to hurt than protect yourself with a gun.

    Also people aren't the most rational and brightest. Often times people shoot before thinking, happened plenty of times.


    To OP. Should probably strike "revolver" and replace with "gun"
    Last edited by shiang; 12-01-12 at 03:40 AM.
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  4. #24
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
    No I mean to yourself.

    If you're in a gang then the likely hood of a gun being useful is high. In which case I would recommend it. For your average Joe you're more likely to hurt than protect yourself with a gun.

    Also people aren't the most rational and brightest. Often times people shoot before thinking, happened plenty of times.


    To OP. Should probably strike "revolver" and replace with "gun"

    That is an often-repeated canard, a mantra for the Brady Group and suchlike... but the plain fact is, it is not true.

    Gun accidents have been falling for about 40 years and are about as low as they've ever been.

    Studies have shown that suicides are not predicated on the presence of a gun... people who are truly suicidal tend to use whatever method is expedient, and will use other methods if a gun isn't handy.

    Annually there are a total of about 30,000 gun deaths (of all sorts... most of them are suicides, last time I checked maybe a thousand or so were accidents) in the USA.

    The government-sponsored National Crime Victimization Survey estimates there are around 80,000 defensive gun useages (DGU's) per year by private citizens defending against criminals... in most no shots are fired at all.

    This is probably a low-ball figure... other studies have placed annual DGUs in the hundreds of thousands if not the millions. Hard numbers are difficult to come by, as perhaps 98-99% of these incidents do not involve any shots fired or anyone injured... the citizen shows the gun and the criminal flees; most often the police are not called.

    Even if we use the low-ball NCVS figures, it makes DGU's several times more common than all gun deaths of all types.. and the real DGU numbers are probably in the hundreds of thousands if you average all the credible studies done.

    If you are referring to the old canard of "don't pull a gun on a criminal, he will just take it away from you and shoot you with it"..... that's nonsense. Taking a gun away from a determined person is not so childishly simple... if it were, there solution would be "if he takes your gun, just take it back and shoot him if it is THAT easy".

    As for people not being rational and sensible, studies have revealed that citizens with concealed-carry permits have a lower incidence of criminal acts and mistaken shootings than the general public.

    So in summary, that is an untrue statement and based on fallacious information.

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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
    No I mean to yourself.
    ...For your average Joe you're more likely to hurt than protect yourself with a gun.
    This is a baseless claim.

  6. #26
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    abortion.

  7. #27
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. E View Post
    abortion.
    Its not part of the thread, but to be honest probably more effective than A or B. Abortions stops crime before it starts. Sad but true.
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  8. #28
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
    No I mean to yourself.

    If you're in a gang then the likely hood of a gun being useful is high. In which case I would recommend it. For your average Joe you're more likely to hurt than protect yourself with a gun.

    Also people aren't the most rational and brightest. Often times people shoot before thinking, happened plenty of times.


    To OP. Should probably strike "revolver" and replace with "gun"
    How is that true since 2007 we have 270 million plus firearms in this country with Americans buying 4.5 million and out of the 8 million new guns made each year? Are these being struck by lightning, winning the lottery odds, or being a astronaut odds?

    U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people | Reuters
    U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.

    About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 12-01-12 at 09:41 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #29
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiang View Post
    911 enter is probably easier than using a revolver,.
    Wouldn't dialing 911 involving answering questions like the nature of your emergency and then waiting for an unknown amount of time for the cops to show up? Cops can't lock onto your cellphone and teleport themselves to your location.

    particularly for someone who isn't trained or normally uses guns.
    Why would someone buy a gun for self defense and not practice with it?

    Though if the assaulter doesn't care about consequences than a revolver would be more effective
    Wouldn't the assaulter attacking you or getting ready to attack you be an indicator that he already doesn't give a rats ass about consequences?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #30
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    Re: What do you suppose has stopped more violent crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In all honesty, it is hard to say exactly.

    Many small-fry, minor annoyances and wannabe-badguys could be scared off my putting the cellphone to your ear and saying "I just dialed 911".

    Determined attackers, hardened criminals, and serious hardcases will laugh, take the phone away and insert it for you as a suppository.


    OTOH, a gun in the hands of someone who looks like they'll use it is an entirely different matter. Most do not want to go there. There are easier prey in the sea.
    It is complicated actually, particularly depending on the state. The legal justification necessary to pulling out a cell phone is none. It may require quite a bit of justification to reveal a revolver.

    I've always wondered what if someone seemingly might to become a perp was informed "I just took your picture and forwarded to my home and the police department, making it a permanent record for the cell phone company. Taking the phone wouldn't do you any good." If the person laughed and continued - time for the revolver to come out.

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