View Poll Results: Which one is it?

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  • Christmas Tree.

    111 81.02%
  • Holiday Tree.

    8 5.84%
  • I'm too broke to care.

    18 13.14%
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Thread: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

  1. #391
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    Ben K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The funny thing about this so called war on xmas is that despite how hard Christians try Atheists are not having a war on Christmas. The reality is that Christian's are having their own war on the word "Holiday". Comically the word holiday derived from the notion "Holy Day". So Christian's are upset that some people call a xmas tree a holy day tree. Makes you wonder if Christian's own dictionaries? Christmas dare I say is a holiday, therefor a tree put up on a holiday would be a holiday tree.

    Christmas is a official holiday, but if we officially call it a holiday its somehow an attack on Christmas?

    I love each year that Christians ramp up this war on Christmas, it just shows why we would be better off without Christianity.
    So I take it Labor Day, Independence Day, Presidents Day and the rest are Holy Days?

    I submit calling these days Celebration Days as a matter of common courtesy and proper functioning of a secular government.

  2. #392
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Not catchy enough. Days of Rays for Spring Break is kind of catchy. Celebration Days? Mmmmm...I don't think so. Carnival of All-Inclusive Consumerism, maybe? Rio at least has gotten good use out of that initial C-word. And for once you could have your CAIC and eat it too!

  3. #393
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    So I take it Labor Day, Independence Day, Presidents Day and the rest are Holy Days?

    I submit calling these days Celebration Days as a matter of common courtesy and proper functioning of a secular government.
    Lol Im a Atheist I dont really take any of this seriously. People will call a tree what they want no matter what. I think that most people just laugh off the technicality of a holiday tree while continuing to call it whatever they normally do.

    But I still wonder what all the fuss is about though. It s not like you cannot have a Christmas tree in your own house any time of the year.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    I plainly stated it. Your point is to play dumb as a means of avoiding a confrontation with the facts.
    My point is to bring you back into reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    "On the one hand, people are not protected from insult. On the other hand, it is not acceptable to inflict deliberate and gratuitous harm onto others through slurs, insults, and other derogatory language."

    Apparently that was indeed too tough to process the first go around, so give it another shot. By the way, do you understand going in that laws against murder are not intended to eliminate killing? Is the why and how of that yet another thing you've long been wondering about?
    So you're not interested in trying to eliminate insults, but you are interested in trying to minimize them. Why shoot for the stars when the moon is so much closer? It's sort of like an under achiever's anthem, which makes sense, as this kind of reasoning falls in line with your side of the political spectrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Read the law. As a public figure, she has fewer rights than a private person would.
    I see. So is it safe to say that the law is the sole foundation of Political Correctness?

  5. #395
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    No, not at all. In fact, I don't typically subscribe to the paranoid rants of irrationalists. This would just be another occasion of that.
    Uh-huh. What's your read on this:

    Atheist Group Freedom From Religion Foundation Targets Holiday Displays - ABC News

  6. #396
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Uh-huh. What's your read on this:
    LOL! Depends on what they are doing, obviosuly. In this case, they seem to be pointing out quite correctly that government at all levels is prohibited from acting through any of its auspices so as to appear to be favoring any one religion over another or religion over non-religion. You can't put the Ten Commandments in a courthouse. You can't put a manger scene on the City Hall lawn. You can designate an area where citizens of all faiths and none can express their views, but you have to understand that all of them might try to do that. If you establish a lottery for display plots somewhere and atheists win 18 of the 20 drawings, that's too bad. No do-overs on that account.

  7. #397
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    LOL! Depends on what they are doing, obviosuly. In this case, they seem to be pointing out quite correctly that government at all levels is prohibited from acting through any of its auspices so as to appear to be favoring any one religion over another or religion over non-religion. You can't put the Ten Commandments in a courthouse. You can't put a manger scene on the City Hall lawn. You can designate an area where citizens of all faiths and none can express their views, but you have to understand that all of them might try to do that. If you establish a lottery for display plots somewhere and atheists win 18 of the 20 drawings, that's too bad. No do-overs on that account.
    You wouldn't happen to be putting something in the first amendment that is not there would you?

  8. #398
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    [QUOTE=Cardinal Fang;1061240754]
    You have always been able to call it whatever you want. So has everyone else. The presumption here comes from Christians calling out those who choose not to follow their sacred example, not the other way around. Once again, it is the Christians who are the oppressor wannabes.
    Come on, you know the atheists can't stand the word Christmas. Same with crosses and any type of religious symbolism, etc.

    The significance is whatever an individual wishes to attach to it. It doesn't have to go beyond or even as far as "Gee, that looks pretty."
    So?


    Where are those people? On Bill O'Reilly again?
    What? There aren't groups out there who take it upon themselves to make phone calls, send e-mails and perhaps even write letters to complaint about such public displays? You must come out from under that rock!

    Assumes facts not in evidence. People -- including me -- certainly have a right to be offended by Christian attempts to expropriate and brand the holiday season, thereby excluding the mention, expression, or even recognition of other holidays that fall at the same time of year. But no one is offended by the term Christmas tree as a personal choice of terminology by Christians and assorted non-Christians alike.
    Sounds like you're jealous to me.

    No, it isn't. The "War on Christmas" is just as much a seasonal fable as Rudolph. Both have proven to be reliable moneymakers, however.
    Perhaps there aren't enough scrooges around to actually make it count as a "war," but you can't deny that there are a lot of bitchers and moaners around when it comes to anything to do with Christmas things, especially those related to Christianity.

    Do some research. Nothing has changed under Chafee.
    Perhaps he and the previous governor referred to it as a "holiday" tree. Check it out.

    Gov. Lincoln Chafee: It's Not 'Tradition' to Call It a Christmas Tree | CNS News

    Yes, it could, though local government buildings would also need coverage. But Christian lawmakers annually insist upon their naked pandering. Then the ACLU among others has to come along and smack them down. Maybe we should stop electing Jesus-freaks.
    That I can agree with. I don't think any politicians should be approving this kind of decorating.

    The alternative of course is to declare a public forum on public property where the holiday expressions of all are welcome. Then you could indeed have sweet baby Jesus in his little manger on the city hall lawn. But you'd have to be prepared for him to have this as his next-door neighbor...
    Now that's just douchy. Really. Celebrate your Winter Soltice, but there is absolutely no need to denigrate others while you do it. Scrooge.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    My point is to bring you back into reality.
    You'll have to find it first, something you've greatly struggled with here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    So you're not interested in trying to eliminate insults, but you are interested in trying to minimize them. Why shoot for the stars when the moon is so much closer? It's sort of like an under achiever's anthem, which makes sense, as this kind of reasoning falls in line with your side of the political spectrum.
    Weak would be an apt word here. Maybe consider that the worst sort of diet is a crash-diet, but it's really just a matter of prioritizing. As long as we still have those who really, really, really want to be allowed to deliberately and gratuitously attack and hurt others with slurs, insults, and other derogatory language just so they can continue to believe that there really are people out there they can feel superior to, that's sort of where we need to begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    I see. So is it safe to say that the law is the sole foundation of Political Correctness?
    No, that's obviously not safe. It is the case that public figures have fewer legal protections against harsh words than private citizens do, and it is also the case that in choosing to become a public figure, Sarah Palin knowingly and willingly accepted all the criticism -- the good, the bad, and the ugly -- that comes with making such a decision.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You wouldn't happen to be putting something in the first amendment that is not there would you?
    The amendment itself is very general. The rules for how the generalities apply in specific situations have to come from someplace else. Any ideas for where to look?

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