View Poll Results: Which one is it?

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  • Christmas Tree.

    111 81.02%
  • Holiday Tree.

    8 5.84%
  • I'm too broke to care.

    18 13.14%
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Thread: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

  1. #311
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    A Christmas tree is a symbol of a pagan holiday and it has no connection to any event in the history of Christianity at all.

    Even the rudimentary beginnings of what we think of today as Christmas tradition did not exist until well into the 19th century.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    A Christmas tree is a symbol of a pagan holiday and it has no connection to any event in the history of Christianity at all.
    It's an evergreen... ever lasting life... get it?

    Even the rudimentary beginnings of what we think of today as Christmas tradition did not exist until well into the 19th century.
    The Romans were quick to put Christian holidays in place of pagan ones. Probably all pagan holidays had Christian replacements rather quickly. Even if they did not institute this particular holiday, they did it with enough others to set the trend.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    As a Christian who celebrates Christmas for religious reasons I do view it as a Christmas tree. It does offend me somewhat when others want to call it a holiday tree or remove the Christmas aspect from it because I feel as if they are disrespecting my faith and traditions on a religious holiday. I would imagine some Jews would feel the same way if the Menorah was called a "holiday Menorah" and others wanted to mask the meaning it has with Hanukkah and the Jewish holiday.

    I completely support the "happy holidays" greeting though since there are many holidays in this season that are observed by many people. However, I don't like taking the Christmas tree, which is a decoration and traditional symbol for a Christian holiday, and calling it a holiday tree to try and erase the Christian tradition.
    But it wasnt originally a Christian symbol or holiday. It should be obvious that a conifer tree is not the symbol for the birth of Jesus Christ. That part of the world isnt known for conifers is it? In fact there isnt one story connecting the Christian bible with a conifer tree is there? I would then conclude that traditional xmas trees have nothing to do with Christianity.

    BTW they are called "Holiday Candles"

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But it wasnt originally a Christian symbol or holiday. It should be obvious that a conifer tree is not the symbol for the birth of Jesus Christ. That part of the world isnt known for conifers is it? In fact there isnt one story connecting the Christian bible with a conifer tree is there? I would then conclude that traditional xmas trees have nothing to do with Christianity.

    BTW they are called "Holiday Candles"
    It is a symbol that mainstream Christianity has adopted, it doesn't need to have direct Biblical reference. What holidays other than Christmas is the Christmas tree a figure for within our society? It's not a symbol for New Years and it's not a symbol for Hanukkah just like baby new year and the Menorah aren't symbols for Christmas.

    In Christianity we have advent candles (which aren't as mainstream), but they are different from a Menorah.
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    A Christmas tree is a symbol of a pagan holiday and it has no connection to any event in the history of Christianity at all.

    Even the rudimentary beginnings of what we think of today as Christmas tradition did not exist until well into the 19th century.
    Still no good reason for the sickenly political correct to use the term "holiday tree"....
    And NOW, the tree is connected...

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's an evergreen... ever lasting life... get it?
    Sure. So did the pagans. They celebrated at the darkest hours of the solstice in confidence of the undying nature of the sun and used fir branches in doing it. Meanwhile, if celebrated at all, Christmas in America in the early 19th century was typically a day filled with riots, hooliganism, and a form of door-to-door extortion known as wassailing. In fact, the first professional New York City Police Department was created in response to the previous year's Christmas rioting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The Romans were quick to put Christian holidays in place of pagan ones. Probably all pagan holidays had Christian replacements rather quickly. Even if they did not institute this particular holiday, they did it with enough others to set the trend.
    The Romans had kind of lost their grip on things by the early 19th century, particularly on this side of the pond. As it was, Christmas in America in 1800 would barely have been noticed in the north. They celebrated Thanksgiving instead. And even in the south, Christmas would not have focused on the family or children, there would have been no Christmas trees, no ornaments or lights, no gift giving, no Christmas cards, no kissing under the mistletoe, no Christmas carols, and no Santa Claus. The whole fabric of Christmas that we lament today as being so over-commercialized was given its birth in the entirely fictional poetry and prose of people like Washington Irving, Clement Moore, and Charles Dickens, promoted through the Civil War by high-minded (often female) social reformers out to ban the sheer lewdness and depravity of the existing holiday, and then by the drawings of Thomas Nast (and later, the Coca-Cola Company) and the spirited campaigns of blatant consumerism sponsored by Macy's, Gimbel's, and other department stores across the land. The holiday as it is actually perceived and celebrated in America today has nothing to do with the religion of the Romans or anybody else. It is entirely a creature of the very crass commercialization that people so love to complain about. Perhaps we should just go back to lewdness and depravity instead.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

    A. Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

    B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

    C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]
    Origin of Christmas | The history of Christmas and how it began

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Still no good reason for the sickenly political correct to use the term "holiday tree"....And NOW, the tree is connected...
    Political correctness is typically just another way of saying common courtesy. Meanwhile, these frazier firs and so forth are connected to a season and a holiday, not to a religion. We bought our Christmas tree yesterday, and come December 25, it and the house will have been decorated, we will open stockings and Santa Claus presents at the crack of dawn, enjoy a traditional Christmas breakfast, visit a cemetery to honor departed friends and loved ones, exchange gifts in the afternoon, and top it off with a waistline-expanding Christmas dinner. And not one single bit of that will have any connection to any religion either.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it.
    So it wasn't the Grinch who stole Christmas at all, but rather a bunch of Christians? All this lameness has been trotted out before you know, and it boils down in case after case to one small faction that claims to be Christian taking umbrage over others (some of them also Christian) not appropriately recognizing their particular version of that religion or their particular take on a how a widely celebrated holiday should be understood and observed. That's basically an interference with the free exercise of the religious rights of others. Got that? Such people should clam up and keep their inane biases to themselves.

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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It is a symbol that mainstream Christianity has adopted, it doesn't need to have direct Biblical reference. What holidays other than Christmas is the Christmas tree a figure for within our society? It's not a symbol for New Years and it's not a symbol for Hanukkah just like baby new year and the Menorah aren't symbols for Christmas.

    In Christianity we have advent candles (which aren't as mainstream), but they are different from a Menorah.
    The evolution of spoken language is a curious thing. It would be interesting to know what Xmas is like in 200 years. I wonder what modern traditions will be just a part of xmas in the future.

    Sometime in the future they may debating whether Polar Bears have always been a part xmas alongside reindeer and the Abominable Snowman

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