View Poll Results: Which one is it?

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  • Christmas Tree.

    111 81.02%
  • Holiday Tree.

    8 5.84%
  • I'm too broke to care.

    18 13.14%
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Thread: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

  1. #261
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    I thought this thread was about Christmas trees?

    I want to know why anyone would object to calling it a "Christmas" tree. Is it because the word "Christ" is in it? Is it because people are offended by the Christmas holiday? I would like someone to give me a clear reason why they object to Christmas trees.

  2. #262
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    and a Plutocracy is an Oligarchy - an non-democratic system.
    Not quite. Democracy is merely the process of electing people. The fact that we elect on the whole, virtually only rich people means we have a representative plutocracy. We get a slate of rich people we get to vote for. Traditional Oligarchies don't have a democratic function in how they get power.

    You use the word "representative" but we all know what and who the Plutocracy or Oligarchy represents don't we?

    And its not the American citizenry
    Not true. They represent their voters may be 10% of the time.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #263
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    I didn't get anything wrong.
    Actually you did.

    You stupidly suggested that Christmas has nothing or little to with Jesus Christ
    And now you're a liar.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Christmas Tree, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. Very few Christmas traditions have any real linkage to Christianity.
    That is what I actually wrote.

    and I guided you to the point of your ignorance.
    And I then refuted you.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1061201714

    You the proceeded to run away from that after you insulted me.

    I provided a list of rituals and traditions that have nothing to do with Christ at all. My list is far more numerous then yours. And my list was just for starters. Remember your asinine reply, not rebuttal, reply, argued "family" as why I'm wrong. It doesn't get any weaker then that.

    There's so much bull**** riding your points that it's hard to know where to begin
    It's a crying shame you say that and then will fail to prove any of that.

    Take the moronic statement you made in #133 about you claiming to not be an atheist. You and I both know that's total horse ****, and yet you went ahead and made that claim
    That's your argument? if you bothered to read any of my posts I have made it abundantly clear I'm not an atheist. Go read the religion forum for a change. I have argued that all belief, atheism or theism is based on want. I personally don't know what exists, but I waffle on days between Deist and agnostic. Neither of those are actually a rejection in the belief in a higher power. You are just making up **** because you don't actually have an argument. I have years of posts showing I'm not an atheist.

    How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you make such idiotic statements?
    What idiotic statement? You mean like 4 years of posts where I show I'm not an atheist? Or you just making **** up because you don't have the maturity to fess up that you insulted someone who proved you wrong.

    The only way you can expect that is if you are developmentally delayed, or you're just a bald face liar.
    Yeah. Since 2008. I've been totally lying about it. Even when I attack militant atheists. Cuz I'm lying.

    Personally, I think it's a combination of both, but that's just my work experience speaking. The one tiny ray of truth in what you said is that you didn't deny that you're also an anti-Christ. That was telling, and I appreciate your honesty however accidental it may have been.
    I don't need to. I merely need to refute your atheist claim to put that to rest.

    No, there's plenty wrong with you, obvious Child, and I could go on all day if you really want me to, but that's entirely up to you.
    And you're getting reported for that.

    In the meantime, I'll keep treating your comments as I always have: like they hardly even exist.
    Meaning you have no reply to post #133, and you are once again running away. Which makes you a liar in your claim you never run away.


    None of this changes that you have epically failed to refute a single thing I said.

    I listed a long number of Christmas Traditions, beliefs and stories that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Christ. Which was my original point. The same one you personally insulted me over. You have nothing to counter this. Nothing.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 12-06-12 at 11:39 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #264
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not quite. Democracy is merely the process of electing people. .
    Not quite (another example of not understanding the context of the word "democracy", who invented it and what it actually means.)

    Democracy comes from the Greek - to be precise the ancient Greeks. It is comprised from two Greek words, "demos" meaning citizen, and "kratia" meaning the state or broadly speaking society.

    So democracy is simple a system of organisation whereby the state is controlled by the citizenry - the citizens decide how to organise their communities and state function - how power and wealth is distributed.

    Look up Solon and his important role in Athenian society around 400 BC

    (don't tell me that you believed that democracy actually first sprouted from the United States of America?)

  5. #265
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Actually you did.
    Actually I didn't. This idiocy started because you believe Christmas Trees have nothing to do with Christ. How do you know this? Did the Son of God himself reveal himself to you and tell you that it has nothing to do with Him? The history of the tree suggests otherwise. Taken from Merriam's Online Dictionary:

    Evergreen tree, usually decorated with lights and ornaments, to celebrate the Christmas season. The use of evergreen trees, wreaths, and garlands as symbols of eternal life was common among the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews. The Christian symbol can be traced to a German medieval play about Adam and Eve, which included the “paradise tree,” hung with apples. The modern, decorated version was widespread among German Lutherans by the 18th century. Brought to North America by German settlers in the 17th century, it had become widespread there by the mid-19th century. It was popularized in 19th-century England by Victoria's consort, the German Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg.

    Where in that article does it prove me wrong? Especially starting with its Christian beginnings. The point I am making is what the Christmas Tree stands for now, especially among Christians, here in the US.

    And I've seen zero evidence in your posts that proves you anything but an atheist/anti-Christian.

  6. #266
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    I'm certainly not Christian myself, so were decorated conifers mentioned in the new testament? Genuinely curious.

  7. #267
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    It's a festive evergreen celebrating the winter solstice.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  8. #268
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by LoopyPaladin View Post
    To my understanding, the celebration of Christmas is the only one of its kind that uses a tree in that respect, so I'm still calling it a Christmas tree. It's the same thing as the whole "happy holidays" versus "Merry Christmas" thing. What you call it depends how butthurt you are about it.
    This whole don't take the "Christ" out of "Christmas" thing always brings a smile to my face as it assumes that Christmas is the high holy holiday that is suppose to be about Christ. That may be true to many people, but that perception is factually based.

    Contrary to conventional wisdom, Christmas is not a religious holiday by origin; nor is it the day on which Christ was born. To a great extent, the Catholic church chose a pagan celebration of the solistice as a means of evangelizing... and capriciously declared the day (either December 25 or January 6) the day on which Christ was born. The fact is, no one knows when Christ was born and its not very likely he was born in December.

    The Christmas tree, specifically, has NOTHING to do with Christ. It is the centerpiece of the pagan holiday that the Catholic church hi-jacked (which, BTW, they also did with Easter, hijacking yet another pagan holiday celebrating the change of seasons)

    The Shocking Pagan Origin of CHRISTMAS!

    The fact is, whatever pagan religions or pagans created this winter solstice celebration has a better claim to tell Christians to get the Christ out of Christmas than Bill O'Reilly has with war on Christmas.

    That all said, Christmas has become a celebration of the birth of Christ... though I would argue that Christians celebrate the birth, death and resurrection of Christ on every day and do need a particular designated day; especially given these dates have been arbitrarily, if not trivially, assigned.

    I still enjoy Christmas and wishing all a Merry Christmas.. and given that I do not see a particular religious significance to Christmas (given I celebrate the birth of Christ daily), I am far more accepting of its secularization and commercialization. Therefore, I don't see the fuss about saying Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays or calling the Christmas tree a Christmas tree. Christmas is what Christmas is, a great day to spend with family and friends, enjoy the exchanging of gifts and great food. Merry Christmas!
    Last edited by upsideguy; 12-07-12 at 11:16 PM.

  9. #269
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Actually I didn't.
    Then you are a liar trice.

    This idiocy started because you believe Christmas Trees have nothing to do with Christ.
    And history supports this. As history shows the majority of our rituals and traditions having absolutely nothing to do with Christ. You have YET to provide any actual rebuttal to this aside from Terms of Service violations.

    How do you know this? Did the Son of God himself reveal himself to you and tell you that it has nothing to do with Him? The history of the tree suggests otherwise. Taken from Merriam's Online Dictionary:
    This is borderline insane. The argument that since God didn't tell you it wasn't Christ related, you can't prove it is not is functionally one of the most retarded arguments ever given. By your reasoning, Nazism is Christ related because God didn't tell me it wasn't. The fact that history shows something very different is irrelevant to you. Your sole criteria is that if Christ didn't tell you something, you can't be certain of it and therefore it could qualify.

    I hereby declare that Killing Jews by the MILLIONS is Christ related. Why? Because Christ never said it wasn't. See how incredibly stupid your argument is?

    Evergreen tree, usually decorated with lights and ornaments, to celebrate the Christmas season. The use of evergreen trees, wreaths, and garlands as symbols of eternal life was common among the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews. The Christian symbol can be traced to a German medieval play about Adam and Eve, which included the “paradise tree,” hung with apples. The modern, decorated version was widespread among German Lutherans by the 18th century. Brought to North America by German settlers in the 17th century, it had become widespread there by the mid-19th century. It was popularized in 19th-century England by Victoria's consort, the German Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg.
    Oops. Furthermore, decorating Evergreen tree, usually decorated with lights and ornaments came from the Roman festival of Saturnalia well before Catholicism took root. And the German druids who originally practiced decorating trees prior to their conversion of Christianity did so to honor the Forest spirits. Druidism. Look it up. Christmas Trees have frankly nothing to do with Christ at all, but are a stolen tradition from Pagan cultures to make Christianity more appealing to non-Christians. Nothing about Christ's birth has ANYTHING to do with decorating trees.

    Where in that article does it prove me wrong? Especially starting with its Christian beginnings. The point I am making is what the Christmas Tree stands for now, especially among Christians, here in the US.
    Because that article leaves out a sizable amount of per-Christian history, from the Roman festival of Saturnalia to Germanic Druidism, both of which engaged in tree decorating eons before Christ as born. If you actually KNEW anything about this subject, you wouldn't have insulted me as you would know that Christmas Trees are a stolen tradition from Pagan Cultures.

    And I've seen zero evidence in your posts that proves you anything but an atheist/anti-Christian.
    And I've seen zero evidence in your posts that proves you do not simply fabricate whatever you want to suit your arguments. Go read my posts.

    Seriously, you just gave the logic that if Christ didn't say it's not, it's part of Christmas. I thereby declare on Dooble's logic the HOLOCAUST is Christmas related.

    How are these ACTUALLY Christ related Dooble, or are you going to run away once again?

    Christmas Trees
    Gift Giving (and it's whole slew of Commercialization)
    Mistletoe
    Yule Tide Logs
    Eggnog
    Frosty the Snowman
    December 25 as Christ's Birthday (which it clearly cannot be based on the descriptions in the Bible)
    Santa Claus
    Christmas Stockings
    Holly, Ivy and Greenery
    Poinsettias
    Jack Frost
    Christmas cards
    Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer
    Last edited by obvious Child; 12-07-12 at 11:18 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #270
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    Re: Christmas Tree vs Holiday Tree

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I thought this thread was about Christmas trees?

    I want to know why anyone would object to calling it a "Christmas" tree. Is it because the word "Christ" is in it? Is it because people are offended by the Christmas holiday? I would like someone to give me a clear reason why they object to Christmas trees.
    I think the "mas" part denigrates fat people.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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