View Poll Results: Should the GOP change or stay true to its principles?

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  • The GOP should reinvent itself

    22 66.67%
  • The GOP should stay true to its convictions

    11 33.33%
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Thread: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

  1. #51
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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    It may be in catholic europe. It sure the hell isn't the case in Protestant Europe. which is most of europe.
    Europe as a whole

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-X6mW5QHw77...0/abortion.jpg
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    How do you conclude from that chart that European abortion laws are more restrictive than the U.S.? Since most of europe is colored green, which according to the chart means there are no restrictions at all.
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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    If I where to offer the GOP advice(amusing thought in itself), it would be to go read MTP's and Zyphlin's posts here. I would add that changing your basic ideology would mean not being the GOP any more. However, any ideology worth supporting should be able to adjust it's stance on issues as times and the needs of the country change. I think to me the best example would be to look at defense spending. Cutting defense spending can be supported from a small government conservative viewpoint. While I am not saying the GOP should support cuts to defense, I think it is a good example of how, using the basic philosophy of conservatism, you can arrive at a change in policy position.

    CAVEAT: I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the GOP. Take my words for what they are worth, coming from an outsider.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    How do you conclude from that chart that European abortion laws are more restrictive than the U.S.? Since most of europe is colored green, which according to the chart means there are no restrictions at all.
    The US is entirely green. Europe is only partially green.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Welcome to the Democratic Party.
    You mean the party that is continuing drone strike assassinations? And the party that mandated people purchase health insurance from private companies rather than institute a universal health care service? And didn't even run a primary contender against Obama to keep him honest? Not to mention is also going after medical marijuana clinics in California and is threatening to imprison state elected officials in states where the people have voted to legalize marijuana?

    No thank you.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  6. #56
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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The GOP should stick to general Conservative Principles but do three main things with them....

    1. Stop ignorantly believing that the POLICIES it's long held are what define conservatism. Re-evalute your policy stances, but do not let that re-evaluation go outside the scope of conservative principle.
    Indeed. A set of a priori assumptions (beliefs) are what define conservatism. However, policies flow from those beliefs. Taking half a loaf is and always has been an option.

    2. Stop putting such emphasis and focus on the social principles of the ideology specifically through wedge issues and allowing them to override over portions of the ideology.
    I never cease to be amazed how many people fall for this canard. We ran a blatant social conservative in 2000 and 2004 and won both times. We ran social moderates in 2008 and 2012 and lost both times. Obviously the problem is social conservatism.

    3. Stop thinking that explaining how your ideology will help specific groups to those specific groups is "pandering".
    No one thinks that. We think that developing special policies that clash with our beliefs but that especially benefit specific groups to the expense of others is "pandering".

    Understand that dropping something from 70% to 30% is going to have a massively different impact than from 30% to 25%.
    With regards to.....?

    Realize that if a person doesn't see a fetus as being the full equivilent of a "baby" that every emotional twaddle argument you put out there isn't going to have any effect.
    That is correct. Yet somehow we are responsible for taking seriously their emotional twaddle arguments?

    There is a solid majority of Americans (both genders) who support restricting abortion. The social extremists (currently, on this issue) aren't Republicans, but Democrats.

    Realize that every 4 years the "young" people you have such disdain for in terms of their views are moving closer and closer into that "regular voter" age, and their social principles are not going to magically change.
    That is correct. Their social beliefs tend to be changed by life events. Getting married, having children, working; as people age, they tend to become more naturally conservative.

    Understand the realities of the web2.0 world we live in, and the status of the media, and find ways to function within it rather than ignorantly assuming you'll just get people to ignore it.
    THAT is spot on. Along with the need to have actual organization rather than depending upon media campaigns.

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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    I wish the GOP would actually stick to their own purported fiscal policy, and then I want them to back down off of the stupid social issues. But then they'd be libertarians.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  8. #58
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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Indeed. A set of a priori assumptions (beliefs) are what define conservatism. However, policies flow from those beliefs. Taking half a loaf is and always has been an option.



    I never cease to be amazed how many people fall for this canard. We ran a blatant social conservative in 2000 and 2004 and won both times. We ran social moderates in 2008 and 2012 and lost both times. Obviously the problem is social conservatism.



    No one thinks that. We think that developing special policies that clash with our beliefs but that especially benefit specific groups to the expense of others is "pandering".



    With regards to.....?



    That is correct. Yet somehow we are responsible for taking seriously their emotional twaddle arguments?

    There is a solid majority of Americans (both genders) who support restricting abortion. The social extremists (currently, on this issue) aren't Republicans, but Democrats.



    That is correct. Their social beliefs tend to be changed by life events. Getting married, having children, working; as people age, they tend to become more naturally conservative.



    THAT is spot on. Along with the need to have actual organization rather than depending upon media campaigns.

    Marine...in a nutshell the republican party lost this election because they "SCARED" people...and they just kept harping on tax cuts for the rich, while taking from everyone else.
    Conservatives MUST understand that the lionshare of americans including lower income republicans do not believe the super rich that have gotten super richer need ANYTHING and the ageless gop rhetoric of trickle down is universally no longer believed and should be totally eliminated from their talking points...and stop trying to sell tax cuts create jobs...no one believes that either....you need new material...trust me on this one

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    Re: Choosing the best GOP national strategy

    I'd recommend that they abandon the more extreme aspects of social conservatism and broaden their umbrella. Pushing further to the right definitely harmed them this time around.

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