View Poll Results: Are You Interested In More Nuclear Power?

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  • Hell no! Remember Chernobyl?

    21 16.67%
  • Don't know.

    3 2.38%
  • Maybe. What do the scientists say?

    29 23.02%
  • Absolutely! Every other idea is even worse.

    79 62.70%
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Thread: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

  1. #361
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Certainly, the price is a bit steep for Americans who are seriously budget-conscious. I don't own an EV and couldn't possibly afford one right now. Then again, I've never owned a new car in my life. But I can see a market for them. EVs aren't only a budget car, but a new technological and economic paradigm. People who can afford an EV and do so are contributing to national energy security. Not all of us are in a position to contribute in this manner, and no one should feel bad if we can't. Those who are early adopters, whatever their reasons are, are making it possible for the costs (initial and battery replacement) to come down. That means that those of us who cannot afford now will be able to, later. The technology of the Audi A6 ICE means it's initial price is far too high for me, and maintenance costs would flat out kill me. That doesn't mean it's an impractical car or a bad car. It's a great car for those that can afford it for reasons of their own. The technology of the A6 will one day trickle down to be common enough and affordable enough for me to own it. And that's only because enough people, well off enough, bought the technology and made it worth mass manufacturing.
    Yeah I got no problems with that, Only your assesment of the A6, it is technology that exists and works now. The Ev vehicules unless there is some major breakthrough can only be for a small segment of the market. They are ATM impraticle for the majority of people (even if costs come down to parity with ICE cars, they remain impracticle for most usues)
    We are still stuck with limited range that can only be overcome by larger cars to house more batteries, or some new development in battery tech (so far it has been going more and more to exotic materials increasing not decreasing prices, even if we could solve this it would have to be made out of readily available materials or easily synthesizable ones (so far neither case seems to be close to true) or the prices will never come down.
    We are then faced with the long recharge rate that will also affect practicality, again there may be breakthroughs in this, either very fast recharge rates or some sort of quick battery changing system where you swap out the batteries for precharged ones, or maybe something copletely different. who knows.
    Point is EV's are not and will not be practicle for the majority any time soon. biodeisel can be placed in production right away and is just as practicle as a gasoline vehicule, minus the reliance on foreign oil.

    I am not anti-EV I just realize we are not even close to being able to go down that route with any significant portion of your motorized vehicules.
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    I agree that it is physically possible, but if you take into account
    Political and economic forces, I don't see it happening.

  3. #363
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Yeah I got no problems with that, Only your assesment of the A6, it is technology that exists and works now. The Ev vehicules unless there is some major breakthrough can only be for a small segment of the market. They are ATM impraticle for the majority of people (even if costs come down to parity with ICE cars, they remain impracticle for most usues)
    We are still stuck with limited range that can only be overcome by larger cars to house more batteries, or some new development in battery tech (so far it has been going more and more to exotic materials increasing not decreasing prices, even if we could solve this it would have to be made out of readily available materials or easily synthesizable ones (so far neither case seems to be close to true) or the prices will never come down.
    We are then faced with the long recharge rate that will also affect practicality, again there may be breakthroughs in this, either very fast recharge rates or some sort of quick battery changing system where you swap out the batteries for precharged ones, or maybe something copletely different. who knows.
    Point is EV's are not and will not be practicle for the majority any time soon. biodeisel can be placed in production right away and is just as practicle as a gasoline vehicule, minus the reliance on foreign oil.

    I am not anti-EV I just realize we are not even close to being able to go down that route with any significant portion of your motorized vehicules.
    The recharge rate and the range are not factor if you are using EVs for short range trips from home. You can easily recharge at night while you sleep, so used this way, the recharge rate is not a factor. If you aren't driving more than 80 miles to work and back, then range is not a factor. The bulk of the US population lives in metro areas and here the EV is perfectly practical. Those that must drive a lot, need not buy EVs because they wouldn't work for them. I used to live in Odessa, TX where most of my neighbors worked in the oil fields, driving hundreds of miles each day. An EV, as they are now, would be no good for them so I would never press them to get one. But corporate office workers who maybe drive 10 miles in a day? Yeah, they should consider one. What "practical" means for one person is not the same for another. If a car gets me from point A to point B safely and reliably, then I would call that car "practical." Given the right conditions, EVs are "practical."

    And I'm not sure what you mean by "any time soon." I think that EVs will not dominate the new car market for 10 - 30 years. For some that's a long time, for others that's a short time, depending on perspective. I think I will be old and gray by the time EVs have the lion's share of the market. That doesn't matter, just so long as we move in that direction. I think oil will become a major problem in about 30 years. I have no hard data to prove that, I just think so from what I read and see. So long as the market in general is pushing EVs with the quick turnover that only R&D shops of major car makers can do, then we'll be in the catbird's seat when and if the excrement hits the rotary impeller. And that means pushing EVs now so that useful and practical development is in place to move fast, later. You and I may not be able to practically own an EV now, I just hope that those who can, do.
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  4. #364
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    The recharge rate and the range are not factor if you are using EVs for short range trips from home. You can easily recharge at night while you sleep, so used this way, the recharge rate is not a factor. If you aren't driving more than 80 miles to work and back, then range is not a factor. The bulk of the US population lives in metro areas and here the EV is perfectly practical. Those that must drive a lot, need not buy EVs because they wouldn't work for them. I used to live in Odessa, TX where most of my neighbors worked in the oil fields, driving hundreds of miles each day. An EV, as they are now, would be no good for them so I would never press them to get one. But corporate office workers who maybe drive 10 miles in a day? Yeah, they should consider one. What "practical" means for one person is not the same for another. If a car gets me from point A to point B safely and reliably, then I would call that car "practical." Given the right conditions, EVs are "practical."

    And I'm not sure what you mean by "any time soon." I think that EVs will not dominate the new car market for 10 - 30 years. For some that's a long time, for others that's a short time, depending on perspective. I think I will be old and gray by the time EVs have the lion's share of the market. That doesn't matter, just so long as we move in that direction. I think oil will become a major problem in about 30 years. I have no hard data to prove that, I just think so from what I read and see. So long as the market in general is pushing EVs with the quick turnover that only R&D shops of major car makers can do, then we'll be in the catbird's seat when and if the excrement hits the rotary impeller. And that means pushing EVs now so that useful and practical development is in place to move fast, later. You and I may not be able to practically own an EV now, I just hope that those who can, do.
    Yes if all you ever do is go short distance to work, But then you can buy a ICE car that can do that at far cheaper cost AND have the flexibility to use it to go on trips etc. I know of no one who would spend more on a vehicule that is less flexible, I am sure there are people who will do that but they are in the minority. The advantage of cheaper recharge vs MPG is lessened if you drive less, so economically there is no incentive. Like I said we looked for my wifes car and it just made no sense to buy a vehicule that is basically forced to stay in the city and will become an expensive paperweight when the batteries need to be changed.
    I do not consider a very expensive vehicule to get very little use to be practicle. Useable maybe but it doesnt fit my idea of practicle.

    I really dont see EV's gaining any significant share of the marketplace untill there is some quantum leap in battery technology, so far it has all been incremental
    What we need is:
    Increased energy density (ie better range out of smaller batteries)
    Quick recharge rates (or some kind of battery switching or some other means of quickly getting moving again)
    Extended cycle life so that the batteries can last as long or even outlast the life of the vehicule
    Cheaper batteries, unfortunately all attempts at improving the first three conditions have used more and more exotic materials which regardless of volume will only increase the price not decrease it.

    I do not see EV's gaining any real market share untill these are solved. Cannot place a timeline on scientific discovery so no clue when/If EV's will really become practicle.
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  5. #365
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Yes if all you ever do is go short distance to work, But then you can buy a ICE car that can do that at far cheaper cost AND have the flexibility to use it to go on trips etc. I know of no one who would spend more on a vehicule that is less flexible, I am sure there are people who will do that but they are in the minority. The advantage of cheaper recharge vs MPG is lessened if you drive less, so economically there is no incentive. Like I said we looked for my wifes car and it just made no sense to buy a vehicule that is basically forced to stay in the city and will become an expensive paperweight when the batteries need to be changed.
    I do not consider a very expensive vehicule to get very little use to be practicle. Useable maybe but it doesnt fit my idea of practicle.

    I really dont see EV's gaining any significant share of the marketplace untill there is some quantum leap in battery technology, so far it has all been incremental
    What we need is:
    Increased energy density (ie better range out of smaller batteries)
    Quick recharge rates (or some kind of battery switching or some other means of quickly getting moving again)
    Extended cycle life so that the batteries can last as long or even outlast the life of the vehicule
    Cheaper batteries, unfortunately all attempts at improving the first three conditions have used more and more exotic materials which regardless of volume will only increase the price not decrease it.

    I do not see EV's gaining any real market share untill these are solved. Cannot place a timeline on scientific discovery so no clue when/If EV's will really become practicle.
    What would actually make EV's practicable would be not only better batteries but if every gas station/parking spot had a recharger.

    But what would really boost EV's popularity would be if the batteries were exchangeable. When you take your tanks form your Oxygen & Acetylene torch even though you own your tanks you exchange them for different tanks because its easier/faster plus safer. SO if cars were designed where you could take the batteries out and exchange them easily at a gas station then people wouldnt think twice about using EV's. Such a system would also reduce the problem of battery replacement after the duty cycles are used up. The bummer though is that no one would invest in such a business without the vehicles to make it worth while. Catch 22....

  6. #366
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What would actually make EV's practicable would be not only better batteries but if every gas station/parking spot had a recharger.

    But what would really boost EV's popularity would be if the batteries were exchangeable. When you take your tanks form your Oxygen & Acetylene torch even though you own your tanks you exchange them for different tanks because its easier/faster plus safer. SO if cars were designed where you could take the batteries out and exchange them easily at a gas station then people wouldnt think twice about using EV's. Such a system would also reduce the problem of battery replacement after the duty cycles are used up. The bummer though is that no one would invest in such a business without the vehicles to make it worth while. Catch 22....
    I already mentioned that as a possibility, though it would be very expensive untill battery cycle life and/or battery costs drop rapidly. as to spot charging it still takes too long compared to filling a car with gas and range is still way below that of ICE vehicules so that would have to get better as well.
    I would love to see the day when these problems are solved, I'm just very skeptical it will happen in my lifetime.
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What would actually make EV's practicable would be not only better batteries but if every gas station/parking spot had a recharger.

    But what would really boost EV's popularity would be if the batteries were exchangeable. When you take your tanks form your Oxygen & Acetylene torch even though you own your tanks you exchange them for different tanks because its easier/faster plus safer. SO if cars were designed where you could take the batteries out and exchange them easily at a gas station then people wouldnt think twice about using EV's. Such a system would also reduce the problem of battery replacement after the duty cycles are used up. The bummer though is that no one would invest in such a business without the vehicles to make it worth while. Catch 22....
    A company called "Better Place" is already doing this in Israel and Denmark.
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  8. #368
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    A company called "Better Place" is already doing this in Israel and Denmark.
    BSS | Better Place
    Good to see it exists.
    Now is it feasible in a huge country like America?
    If it is then mayeb i will see EV's actually do somethign in my lifetime
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  9. #369
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the problem with current EVs is the upfront cost. most working class folks simply can't afford them
    Not to mention size and utility. Give me an EV Tahoe with at least 400mile range and ability to tow at least 7000 pounds, then you might get me looking. Looking only, since I couldn't afford the damned thing. Even a new, gas powered, Tahoe is way out of my price range.

    Even if they had practical ranges and costs, I wouldn't buy one of those matchbox sized little things that you couldn't carry jack in, or tow with it either. With my size, forget those little things, ain't gonna happen for me. Hell, I bought an HHR this year, and after six months, I would gladly get rid of it, nothing wrong with the vehicle itself, for what it is, it is just uncomfortable for me and lacks the utility I desire/need.
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    i hate every power which harms humanity
    Then how do you propose that the US protect us? Do you really think the rest of the world is going to sit by a camp fire and sing Kumbya? I love every power that keeps me and my family safe.
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