View Poll Results: Are You Interested In More Nuclear Power?

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  • Hell no! Remember Chernobyl?

    21 16.67%
  • Don't know.

    3 2.38%
  • Maybe. What do the scientists say?

    29 23.02%
  • Absolutely! Every other idea is even worse.

    79 62.70%
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Thread: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

  1. #331
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Energy independence is a myth. It simply doesn't happen. Unless you want an autarkic economy like DPRK, the US exists in a world market, and that includes the market for energy. Being a net importer of crude is a very lucrative business for the United States, and anyone that argues in support of "energy independence" is arguing against this.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    i'm fine with it only as long as it's run by a government agency rather than by a private sector business.
    hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha
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  3. #333
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I don't think my cost estimates are high. I think they are nearly exactly correct. Be that as it may, we agree that this solution is being avoided because of cost to the operators. I think that is unconscionable. Their first obligation in this matter is to Public Safety and they are ignoring that to save a dollar, or as I suspect to wait until bankruptcy and fiest the costs upon the public. This dry cask storage has been an option available to all operators for a long time and has not been implemented because of costs/expense. Doesn't that sufficiently display the mentality of the Corporations ( who can file bankruptcy ) behind the Nuclear plants? Do you think we should trust Big Money? Get real, we're talking about a viable storage method being ignored because of cost. Dollars and cents. Profit. Capitalism. This by entities that do not live and breathe, but have powers in excess of those that live and breathe. That'd be you and me and Grandma.
    Well, I would oppose big government, and that means the government needs to keep it's sticky fingers out of private business as much as possible. On the other hand, public safety is one of the primary mandates of government. So if Big Money has been skimping on public safety, the government does need to step in and twist their arm, so to speak. And no, I don't trust Big Money and I don't trust Big Government either. But the fact is that Big Things will never get done without entities Big Enough to achieve them. Installing a power plant of any kind is a Big Thing that requires the clout of one or more Big Entities. This is done for the general good of populace and if handled properly it works rather well. It is the responsibility of the general populace which supply the members of Big Money to monitor the activities of Big Money and if it steps out of line, the populace must overwhelm it in the manner of army ants attacking scorpions until Big Money capitulates and does what is right. Make sense?
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  4. #334
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Energy independence is a myth. It simply doesn't happen. Unless you want an autarkic economy like DPRK, the US exists in a world market, and that includes the market for energy. Being a net importer of crude is a very lucrative business for the United States, and anyone that argues in support of "energy independence" is arguing against this.
    Importing means you are spending money on someone else's product, not making money from our own product. I don't see how "importing" is a lucrative business for the US as a whole. Perhaps it is for a tiny group of individuals, but not generally for the American worker.
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  5. #335
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Importing means you are spending money on someone else's product, not making money from our own product. I don't see how "importing" is a lucrative business for the US as a whole. Perhaps it is for a tiny group of individuals, but not generally for the American worker.
    Crude is imported and then refined. It is sold domestically and internationally at a lucrative profit. This is how the global economy operates. The US has a refinery capacity of 20% of global consumption.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Crude is imported and then refined. It is sold domestically and internationally at a lucrative profit. This is how the global economy operates. The US has a refinery capacity of 20% of global consumption.
    Yes, that's a good point. Oil barons make a lot of money on that, yet the average American still pays high prices for gas. Rich oil barons does not make for energy independence for the US as a whole. We still require a great deal of foreign oil priced by an international market (as opposed to a domestic market) that Americans must still pay high prices for. I'm happy for the rich oil barons, but I would like for the rest of of us to be happy too. Make sense?
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  7. #337
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Yes, that's a good point. Oil barons make a lot of money on that, yet the average American still pays high prices for gas. Rich oil barons does not make for energy independence for the US as a whole. We still require a great deal of foreign oil priced by an international market (as opposed to a domestic market) that Americans must still pay high prices for. I'm happy for the rich oil barons, but I would like for the rest of of us to be happy too. Make sense?
    International market prices are not "opposed to a domestic market". Market prices are market prices. The price you pay at the pump is the market price plus the gas tax minus subsidies.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    International market prices are not "opposed to a domestic market". Market prices are market prices. The price you pay at the pump is the market price plus the gas tax minus subsidies.
    Right. If Ahmabeenajerk in Iran decides to sink of few oil tankers in the Strait of Hormuz, obviously the price of oil would skyrocket, and thereby so would the price of gas. And this cost increase would occur even if I drilled the oil domestically in Odessa Texas, right? Because all oil is traded on the international market. But, if I had an electric vehicle and I relied upon electricity generated solely in the US, my electrical prices would not be defined by OPEC which includes nations hostile to the US, right? And if Iran blocked the Straight of Hormuz for even a couple days (before the US obliterates Iran's entire military) my electricity prices would not change, would they? And that's because my electricity prices are defined by what happens in the US, not in some god-forsaken dust bowl ruled over by a megalomaniac, right? That's the advantage of "energy independence."
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  9. #339
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Right. If Ahmabeenajerk in Iran decides to sink of few oil tankers in the Strait of Hormuz, obviously the price of oil would skyrocket, and thereby so would the price of gas. And this cost increase would occur even if I drilled the oil domestically in Odessa Texas, right? Because all oil is traded on the international market. But, if I had an electric vehicle and I relied upon electricity generated solely in the US, my electrical prices would not be defined by OPEC which includes nations hostile to the US, right? And if Iran blocked the Straight of Hormuz for even a couple days (before the US obliterates Iran's entire military) my electricity prices would not change, would they? And that's because my electricity prices are defined by what happens in the US, not in some god-forsaken dust bowl ruled over by a megalomaniac, right? That's the advantage of "energy independence."
    Several things. Oil is traded on International markets. Iraq was independent. Sold to anybody and sold oil in Euros. An influential group (gov'ts want wars, not people, Eisenhower) initiates a war against this rogue oil owner. War over, nobody steals the oil but it is now in the Centralized Distribution Network and those players will now make perhaps $.05 per gallon on the oil coming from Iraq in perpetuity. That Centralized Distribution Network is exactly like the Electricity grid that is Centralized Distribution Network. Ergo, if you can plug a new energy source into your distribution network (think grid) you can realize a small profit on each kilowatt that moves through that grid. Now you know what makes Nukes desirable. It is the continuous flow of kilowatts/money into an existing monopolistic distribution network. The Network collects taxes on each kilowatt and pays its' partners known as governments. Genuine renewable energy does not produce into this network or pay taxes to gov'ts, so it is fighting an uphill battle to get gov'ts to sponsor genuine renewable energy programs. The gov'ts love to sponsor projects that plug in to the existing monopolistic distribution network like nuclear power plants, huge wind generators and acres and acres of solar arrays because they return tax monies to these entities. I am attaching a link as relates to current Nuclear Power shenanighans by the regulators. The regulators are supposed to be working for Public Safety.

    Whistleblower: Nuclear Disaster in America Is More Likely Than the Public Is Aware of | Alternet

    "The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has known at least since 1996 that flooding danger from upstream dam failure was a more serious threat than the agency would publicly admit. The NRC failed from 1996 until 2011 to assess the threat even internally. In July 2011, the NRC staff completed a report finding “that external flooding due to upstream dam failure poses a larger than expected risk to plants and public safety ” [emphasis added] but the NRC did not make the 41-page report public. "

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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    International market prices are not "opposed to a domestic market". Market prices are market prices. The price you pay at the pump is the market price plus the gas tax minus subsidies.
    And even that only exist because we refuse and the government has blocked the adoption of technologies that exist today, that would almost totally eliminate, if not actually eliminate the need for Crude Oil.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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