View Poll Results: Are You Interested In More Nuclear Power?

Voters
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  • Hell no! Remember Chernobyl?

    21 16.67%
  • Don't know.

    3 2.38%
  • Maybe. What do the scientists say?

    29 23.02%
  • Absolutely! Every other idea is even worse.

    79 62.70%
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Thread: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

  1. #211
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    an easier start is to use less at home, that being as low tech as we can get....
    the less we use, the less line loss as well.
    Agreed, combine that with increasing transmission efficiency and we'll have already made a huge dent in the problem.

  2. #212
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Local solar will not support heavy loads 24/7, so local solar is little more than a supplemental source of electricity....
    Consistent. Wrong again. Solar charges batteries, preferably nickel/iron, some still being used since 1900. They use up electrolyte, potassium hydroxide, not the metal plates. Inverters are use to make the alternating current. Many small inverters, 2-400 watts availavle at $29-79 at Harbor Frieght. The cooling fans in the larger cause diminishing returns, but are necessary for appliances with motors. A generator with the exhaust pipe plugged in to a hot water heater so when you do need a little extra juice, you can use the 75% of energy usually wasted out exhaust to make hot water. Potable or baseboard. Now the big factory down the street might not be able to do this, but does that mean we are subsidizing them with centralized distribution of energy or as you refer "the grid," and if they are using big current, they are responsible for larger line losses and should pay more. Tip o' the iceberg, bucko.

  3. #213
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Consistent. Wrong again. Solar charges batteries, preferably nickel/iron, some still being used since 1900. They use up electrolyte, potassium hydroxide, not the metal plates. Inverters are use to make the alternating current. Many small inverters, 2-400 watts availavle at $29-79 at Harbor Frieght. The cooling fans in the larger cause diminishing returns, but are necessary for appliances with motors. A generator with the exhaust pipe plugged in to a hot water heater so when you do need a little extra juice, you can use the 75% of energy usually wasted out exhaust to make hot water. Potable or baseboard. Now the big factory down the street might not be able to do this, but does that mean we are subsidizing them with centralized distribution of energy or as you refer "the grid," and if they are using big current, they are responsible for larger line losses and should pay more. Tip o' the iceberg, bucko.
    nickel iron? had to look that up....had not heard of them before.
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  4. #214
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    News to me as well, seems they tend to be rather innefficient though.

    Nickel Iron Batteries
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  5. #215
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    I think "energy independence" is stupid.
    If it is done, for that reason alone, no I don't support it.
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  6. #216
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    News to me as well, seems they tend to be rather innefficient though.

    Nickel Iron Batteries
    That is correct. The power density is lower than conventional lead/acid batteries, but they're an investment because your grandchildren might still be using the ones you install today. The correct statement is that they are not as efficient as lead acid batteries. That does not mean they are innefficient and that word is poorly chosen. They're lots better than nukes.

  7. #217
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think "energy independence" is stupid.
    If it is done, for that reason alone, no I don't support it.
    It has nothing to be with electricity as its an oil issue for now, however do you connect our energy needs in any way to our need to be involved in the terrorist/dictator/volatile/anti-American rich Middle East?
    Last edited by Smeagol; 11-23-12 at 06:13 PM.
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  8. #218
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    nickel iron? had to look that up....had not heard of them before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    News to me as well, seems they tend to be rather innefficient though.

    Nickel Iron Batteries
    I don't think anybody is using these anymore. NiMH are more common these days.

    A better solution for electrical storage with intermittent energy source like Wind and Solar are Flow Batteries. They can hold a charge for a very long time. Some are already being used for industrial applications.
    Flow batteries are a relatively new technology. Although originally dating back to the mid-1950s, most of the research leading to their development was carried out by NASA in the 1970s and by scientists at the University of New South Wales in the 1980s, where the contemporary, vanadium-based version was patented. The largest flow battery installation is a 1.5 megawatt facility at a semiconductor factory in Japan.

    The technology offers relatively low energy density in terms of energy storage per pound of material–even compared to heavy storage systems like lead-acid batteries–which does not make them good candidates for mobile applications. For stationary power storage purposes, however, this is far less a critical factor than it is for vehicles or for portable electronics. Flow batteries’ high level of rechargeability and relative safety (compared to lead-acid batteries, which release dangerous hydrogen gas) and stability make them potentially well suited for further development for moderate-scale power storage systems.

    Flow batteries are also useful as large-scale backup power supplies because of their ability to quickly respond (within fractions of a millisecond) to demand for power. Because of their long life expectancy, they would also do extremely well for load-shifting, where electricity is used to charge the battery during off-peak hours when rates are low, and then provide power back to a facility from the batteries instead of paying the premium, peak electricity rates.
    Storing That Power: Flow Batteries -

    That said, I think it makes sense to employ several different energy solutions. There are advantages and disadvantages to each one. Properly positioning the various energy types can take advantage of the strengths of each while compensating for the weaknesses. Solar is an excellent idea in Tempe, AZ but a lousy one in Seattle, WA. I see people arguing for their favorite energy source as though they expect it to be the last type ever used. I don't see that as possible. We'd like cheap electricity but also pollution-free electricity. Well, "you can't always get want. But if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need." We might have to accept a certain number of nuclear plants and a certain number of Natural Gas plants, all sprinkled in amongst Wind, Solar, and Wave plants. Many types of energy working together can provide energy independence, cleaner air, and reasonable costs. It's all about placing the right kind of energy where it is most suited.
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  9. #219
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    That is correct. The power density is lower than conventional lead/acid batteries, but they're an investment because your grandchildren might still be using the ones you install today. The correct statement is that they are not as efficient as lead acid batteries. That does not mean they are innefficient and that word is poorly chosen. They're lots better than nukes.
    so what isn't better than nukes?
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  10. #220
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    Re: Would You Tolerate Nuclear Power For Energy Independence?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    That is correct. The power density is lower than conventional lead/acid batteries, but they're an investment because your grandchildren might still be using the ones you install today. The correct statement is that they are not as efficient as lead acid batteries. That does not mean they are innefficient and that word is poorly chosen. They're lots better than nukes.
    Shortcomings
    Low cell voltage.

    Very heavy and bulky.

    The low reactivity of the active components limits the high rate performance of the cells. They cells take a charge slowly, and give it up slowly.

    Low coulombic efficiency, typically less than 65%

    Steep voltage drop off with state of charge

    Low energy density.

    High self discharge rate.

    More pronounced Hydrogen gassing than Nickel-Cadmium

    Applications
    Low efficiency = inefficiency in my book.
    Again depends on the application. Solar panels dont work so well in Alaska especially in winter, and dont provide enough energy for city/heavy industrial applications. Like wind they can be usefull in certain circumstances but cannot replace oil/coal/nuclear any time in the near-medium future. perhaps someday technology will progress enough but ATM we arent there.
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