View Poll Results: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

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  • Ron Paul's Farewell

    14 33.33%
  • Obama's Conference

    4 9.52%
  • Neither

    24 57.14%
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Thread: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

  1. #31
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Actually, its mostly the states who handle the education standards.
    Which I entirely disagree with.

    Some already do.
    Which I entirely disagree with.

    Some already do.
    Which I entirely disagree with.

    I think you are grossly exaggerating here.
    I don't think so. When you have high schools graduating students who cannot read, a diploma isn't really worth the paper it's printed on. That's why they came up with "no child left behind", which is equally a failure because, instead of teaching subjects, teachers just teach the test and nothing beyond it. You used to be able to get a good job straight out of high school. That's largely gone now.

    So only atheists should be allowed into office. Gotcha.
    No, only people who understand the separation of church and state and leave their religious views at the door.

    "Faulty beliefs" is completely subjective in a religious and ideologically diverse nation.
    No, a belief is either factually true or factually false. I don't care how much you believe in unicorns, how emphatically you demand they are real, how much faith you have, there's no reason to think unicorns exist. The same is true of gods.

    Ron Paul on gay marriage: In a 2007 interview, Paul said that he supported the right of gay couples to marry, so long as they didn't "impose" their relationship on anyone else, on the grounds of supporting voluntary associations.[139] He also said, "Matter of fact, I'd like to see all governments out of the marriage question. I don't think it's a state function, I think it's a religious function." Paul has stated that in a best case scenario, governments would enforce contracts and grant divorces but otherwise have no say in marriage.[140] He has also said he doesn't want to interfere in the free association of two individuals in a social, sexual, and religious sense.[141][142] When asked if he was supportive of gay marriage, Paul responded, "I am supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want."
    Paul just wants to throw the question from the federal government to the states but it really cannot work that way. The Constitution already provides equal protection under the law (which gays are certainly not currently entitled to) and guarantees that contracts in one state (which marriage is) must be respected in all states. Letting states pick and choose is blatantly unconstitutional.

    Paul does not believe in government handing out "free" contraceptions. That is not a religious stance, its a political ideology stance. He believes in allowing the citizens to be able use and purchase contraceptives whenever they wish.
    I didn't say anything about free contraceptives, I said that he personally opposes contraceptives.

    He is pro-life as are nearly all Republicans, religious or not. But he does not believe the federal government should have a say in the issue. Its a states rights issue. Once again, political ideology, not religion.
    Once again, it doesn't work as a state's rights issue. See above.

    What does that mean exactly? Because it means something different for a lot of people. While Paul says he rejects the notion of "separation of church and state" he believes in "free exercise of religion" and "no establishment of religion". So for example, if a group of students at a public school wished to pray before class they should be free to do so. But no student(s) should be forced to do so.
    And that's entirely fine if a group of students, not being led by anyone in an official state-sponsored capacity, want to get together and pray. I have no problem with that. However, when an employee of the state, acting in their capacity as a representative of the state, wants to take part in such activities and particularly lead such activities, that's where I have a problem. The place for religion is in the church and in the home, not in the schools or in the legislature.

    Please do!
    You already agreed to everything he said!
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #32
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which I entirely disagree with.
    You can entirely disagree if you want but IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RON PAUL'S RELIGION

    I don't think so. When you have high schools graduating students who cannot read, a diploma isn't really worth the paper it's printed on. That's why they came up with "no child left behind", which is equally a failure because, instead of teaching subjects, teachers just teach the test and nothing beyond it. You used to be able to get a good job straight out of high school. That's largely gone now.
    It is largely gone because almost everyone goes to college now. A college diploma is just a really expensive high school diploma.

    No, only people who understand the separation of church and state and leave their religious views at the door.
    Which Ron Paul does.

    No, a belief is either factually true or factually false. I don't care how much you believe in unicorns, how emphatically you demand they are real, how much faith you have, there's no reason to think unicorns exist. The same is true of gods.
    And once again, Ron Paul does not force anyone to follow his religious beliefs.

    Paul just wants to throw the question from the federal government to the states but it really cannot work that way. The Constitution already provides equal protection under the law (which gays are certainly not currently entitled to) and guarantees that contracts in one state (which marriage is) must be respected in all states. Letting states pick and choose is blatantly unconstitutional.
    You clearly did not even read his quote because he says he doesn't see it as a state function but as a religious function. He argues for government being out of the marriage issue entirely except to oversee divorce proceedings and enforce such contracts (just like with any other private contract). And I happen to agree with that sentiment.

    I didn't say anything about free contraceptives, I said that he personally opposes contraceptives.
    Prove it.

    Once again, it doesn't work as a state's rights issue. See above.
    And once again, you may disagree with it being a state's rights issue but it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with political ideology.




    You already agreed to everything he said!
    I don't agree with everything he says. While I agree with him on reducing/eliminating taxes on things like income, sales, and capital, I disagree with him on land taxes (I believe they should be raised). I also don't completely agree with him on immigration and his overemphasis on the gold standard.

    But please provide those quotes.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  3. #33
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    You can entirely disagree if you want but IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RON PAUL'S RELIGION
    So? I didn't say I only disagreed with him on religion, did I?

    It is largely gone because almost everyone goes to college now. A college diploma is just a really expensive high school diploma.
    Which is one reason colleges are overloaded. Most people don't need to go to college, community colleges have become a place for people to learn the things they should have learned in high school. Most blue-collar workers ought to get out of high school and be able to earn a living. There's no point in college for them. Things have only gotten to this point because high school educations have become such a joke.

    Which Ron Paul does.
    Certainly he does not and hold the views he does.

    And once again, Ron Paul does not force anyone to follow his religious beliefs.
    But he certainly legislates with his religious beliefs in mind.

    You clearly did not even read his quote because he says he doesn't see it as a state function but as a religious function. He argues for government being out of the marriage issue entirely except to oversee divorce proceedings and enforce such contracts (just like with any other private contract). And I happen to agree with that sentiment.
    Marriage has been a civil function for a long, long, long time, in fact, religion co-opted marriage from secular society. In the United States, it's been decades upon decades since it had any meaningful religious significance. You can walk down all the aisles in all the churches you want to, you're not married until you get that piece of paper from the state.

    Prove it.
    See his "We the People Act".

    And once again, you may disagree with it being a state's rights issue but it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with political ideology.
    And once again, you assume that I only disagree with his religious stance. I disagree with a lot of things he says.

    I don't agree with everything he says. While I agree with him on reducing/eliminating taxes on things like income, sales, and capital, I disagree with him on land taxes (I believe they should be raised). I also don't completely agree with him on immigration and his overemphasis on the gold standard.
    No, I didn't mean that. I said you agree that he said everything I stated he said, thus I didn't have to produce quotes to demonstrate he actually holds those positions. Quotes are only necessary if you think he doesn't really hold those positions.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #34
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    So? I didn't say I only disagreed with him on religion, did I?
    No, but my issue is not with your position on education but that you said his religious views directly affect his views on education.

    Cephus: It [Paul's religious views] certainly affects how he sees education, church-state separation, etc. How can you not see that?
    Which is one reason colleges are overloaded. Most people don't need to go to college, community colleges have become a place for people to learn the things they should have learned in high school. Most blue-collar workers ought to get out of high school and be able to earn a living. There's no point in college for them. Things have only gotten to this point because high school educations have become such a joke.
    Well for once we agree.

    Certainly he does not and hold the views he does.
    But he certainly legislates with his religious beliefs in mind.
    More baseless claims.



    Marriage has been a civil function for a long, long, long time, in fact, religion co-opted marriage from secular society. In the United States, it's been decades upon decades since it had any meaningful religious significance. You can walk down all the aisles in all the churches you want to, you're not married until you get that piece of paper from the state.
    Which shouldn't be the case. Did you know before the Reconstruction there was no marriage licensing in the US? It only came about with the South to keep whites and blacks from marrying each other. It was unnecessary then and it is unnecessary now.

    See his "We the People Act".
    I am aware of it. Point to me where he wants to ban contraceptives.

    And once again, you assume that I only disagree with his religious stance. I disagree with a lot of things he says.

    No, I didn't mean that. I said you agree that he said everything I stated he said, thus I didn't have to produce quotes to demonstrate he actually holds those positions. Quotes are only necessary if you think he doesn't really hold those positions.
    And once again, the issue I've taken up with you is your claim that his religion affects his political actions.

    Now, provide me some quotes, please.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  5. #35
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    I watched Ron Paul's farewell speech and it was very well delivered. He is one of the last true statesman in Congress, but has paved a way to a Liberty movement in this country. He has brought the ideas of fiscal responsibility, small government, and civil liberties to the people and it has been well received. Dr. Paul could not be bought. He did not support any special interest group, and was true to his principles for his entire stay in Congress.

    People call him crazy, but when one actually looks into what he is saying...they find out that it makes a hell of a lot more sense then a lot of the BS going on now.
    The fact that he's a racist loon who opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and thinks the wrong side won the american civil war is just a minor annoyance.
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