View Poll Results: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

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  • Ron Paul's Farewell

    14 33.33%
  • Obama's Conference

    4 9.52%
  • Neither

    24 57.14%
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Thread: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

  1. #21
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by jacobchillerman View Post
    The other day Ron Paul gave his farewell speech to congress

    In another attempt to shut out Ron Paul's message, President Obama decided to hold his conference(I honestly dont care wtf it was) at the EXACT. SAME. TIME.

    So which one did you watch? Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's conference....or neither?



    I was working during the Obama presser. I saw some highlights.

    The little girl in the Commercial was a tougher questioner of Ray Lewis than the adoring, fawning press corp.

    What's your bedtime? Do you like my dress?

    How about something like why did you not allow Susan Rice to tell the actual story that you knew was true and why did you for several weeks intentionally hide the fact that Al Qaeda was the planning force?

  2. #22
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Not in and of itself, it is a part of a particular sectarian belief, which Paul does hold, which demonstrates an anti-science, anti-reality view of the world around us. It's one thing that politicians play to the religious right to get votes, it's another that they not only swill the Koolade but Paul dumps it down his throat by the gallon.
    More generalizations. You might as well say anyone who isn't an atheist is unfit to hold public office.



    Whatever makes you think I excuse anyone who does it?
    Who have you voted for in the past presidential elections?


    It certainly affects how he sees education, church-state separation, etc. How can you not see that?
    1. He believes education should be left to the states to handle. In his "ideal world" he would want parents to be able to choose the school that they think is right for their child, whether it emphasizes a spiritual view of the world or secular one. Unlike most of his fellow Republicans he did not push for mandatory teaching of intelligent design.

    2. He does not believe religion should dictate public policy. Show me evidence he does.

    Instead of giving me more generalizations how about something concrete? For example, give me a bill he has proposed that pushes his religious beliefs. I think all of us hold certain beliefs, whether religious or secular, that other people may consider "crazy". What is important is whether the politicians allow the citizens to practice and hold their beliefs freely without threat of persecution. I believe Ron Paul was as good as any at doing that.
    Last edited by Geoist; 11-17-12 at 01:25 PM.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  3. #23
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Here is Ron Paul's take on the subject:

    "My personal view is that recognizing the validity of an evolutionary process does not support atheism nor should it diminish one's view about God and the universe.

    From my viewpoint, this is a debate about science and religion (and I wish it could be more civil!) and should not involve politicians at all...

    The real problem comes when government gets involved in this issue, whether the goal is to push theocracy or merely prayer in a public place, or the opposite, to crush all traces of faith expression in public places...

    Most of the conflict between atheists and believers comes up because of public schools... it's a major hot button issue because the school curriculum and all standards of behavior are dictated by the federal government, the Department of Education, and the federal courts.

    In a private setting, the 'owners' set the rules and participants come with an understanding of the rules regarding prayer and religious expression and what one wants to hear about evolution. This still leaves some problems with the possibility that local schools will overstep the bounds of etiquette or will use some textbooks considered to be offensive to one group or another. In this case, the closest one can come to having the 'owner' decide would be for the local school board to make the decision and be subject to public challenge at the polls. The Supreme Court handing down edicts that apply to every single circumstance around the country is not a solution."



    So Cephus, please point to me where he wants to force any person or institution to adhere to his personal and private beliefs.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  4. #24
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    I watched both. I watched Obama's conference live then i watched Ron Paul's farewell address on YouTube.
    And this is what i have to say to ol Ron: Congressman Ron Paul, although i did not agree with pretty much all of your economic policies, however i did agree with your anti interventionist, anti imperialist foreign policy, and your pro civil liberties social policy, you were a great Congressman and was not afraid to speak your mind. You will be missed Congressman Paul.


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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    1. He believes education should be left to the states to handle. In his "ideal world" he would want parents to be able to choose the school that they think is right for their child, whether it emphasizes a spiritual view of the world or secular one. Unlike most of his fellow Republicans he did not push for mandatory teaching of intelligent design.
    Which is problematic because it gets rid of national standards for education. You'll have the south teaching creationism, you'll have the liberal states teaching "feel-good" nonsense, any kid transferring from one state to another is going to walk into an entirely different educational system and high school diplomas won't mean a thing because there won't be a single standard required to receive one. No thanks.

    2. He does not believe religion should dictate public policy. Show me evidence he does.
    Beliefs inherently inform our actions. When one has faulty beliefs, even if they are not actively trying to apply them, they will impact one's decisions. Ron Paul, because of his religious beliefs, is openly against gay marriage, contraception, abortion, separation of church and state, etc. I can point out all of these in speeches he's given if you'd like.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #26
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    You will always hear haters say that Ron Paul never got any significant legislation passed. He was "Dr No". I think if you look at where our country is, the path it is going down, and the predictions that some strategists make about our fiscal future, that is one of his greatest accomplishments. To get anything passed in our Congress during his tenure required corruption, massive pork, and a handout to the other politicians to make it happen. In addition, and this is what I loved the most about the guy, he NEVER endorsed Romney. NEVER. Every idiot that was on that primary stage endorsed Romney. He didn't. I hope his son carries on his legacy (though he did endorse Romney).
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #27
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is problematic because it gets rid of national standards for education. You'll have the south teaching creationism, you'll have the liberal states teaching "feel-good" nonsense, any kid transferring from one state to another is going to walk into an entirely different educational system and high school diplomas won't mean a thing because there won't be a single standard required to receive one. No thanks.
    Strawman. Gun laws and right to carry have been state issues for years and many of them agree to recongnize each other's permits. While gun laws are much more simple to agree upon, it isn't impossible as you would have us believe. In addition, home school accreditation firms set standards that many state education systems agree upon all the time. For instance, we checked into homeschooling my son. If we would have chosen to do so, we had picked out a home school program that would have been recognized in North Carolina as well as by DOD schools upon our return to a military base. This is a non-issue that can be solved by the private sector and states.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Beliefs inherently inform our actions. When one has faulty beliefs, even if they are not actively trying to apply them, they will impact one's decisions. Ron Paul, because of his religious beliefs, is openly against gay marriage, contraception, abortion, separation of church and state, etc. I can point out all of these in speeches he's given if you'd like.
    Yes, beliefs inherently inform our actions. Your beliefs are faulty IMO so therefore I wouldn't vote for you. Just as you see Paul's beliefs as faulty so you wouldn't vote for him. Your beliefs informed your actions when choosing who to vote for. So, don't vote for a Christian if you don't like the beliefs and get over it.
    On to Ron Paul, let's see these speeches. On gay marriage, he is personally against it but wouldn't dictate that other's can't practice it. He also believes the federal gov't shouldn't be involved in it which would eliminate things like DOMA, marriage certificates, etc. Abortion, he has repeatedly told the story of when he personally witnessed a partial birth abortion and it changed his viewpoint on it. Nothing religious about that. If his religious views have added to that, then so be it. But the intial reason was the aforementioned one. Seperation of church and state. Not in the constitution. However, he believes local gov't should be able to dictate whether prayer occurs in school, students are taught about God, etc. Nothing wrong with that IMO. If you do away with the Dept of Education, then you can pick a secular school for your kid to attend that doesn't pray or teach anything about God. See how that works?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  8. #28
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is problematic because it gets rid of national standards for education.
    Actually, its mostly the states who handle the education standards.

    You'll have the south teaching creationism,
    Some already do.

    you'll have the liberal states teaching "feel-good" nonsense,
    Some already do.


    any kid transferring from one state to another is going to walk into an entirely different educational system and high school diplomas won't mean a thing because there won't be a single standard required to receive one. No thanks.
    I think you are grossly exaggerating here.


    Beliefs inherently inform our actions. When one has faulty beliefs, even if they are not actively trying to apply them, they will impact one's decisions.
    So only atheists should be allowed into office. Gotcha.

    "Faulty beliefs" is completely subjective in a religious and ideologically diverse nation.

    Ron Paul, because of his religious beliefs, is openly against gay marriage,
    Ron Paul on gay marriage: In a 2007 interview, Paul said that he supported the right of gay couples to marry, so long as they didn't "impose" their relationship on anyone else, on the grounds of supporting voluntary associations.[139] He also said, "Matter of fact, I'd like to see all governments out of the marriage question. I don't think it's a state function, I think it's a religious function." Paul has stated that in a best case scenario, governments would enforce contracts and grant divorces but otherwise have no say in marriage.[140] He has also said he doesn't want to interfere in the free association of two individuals in a social, sexual, and religious sense.[141][142] When asked if he was supportive of gay marriage, Paul responded, "I am supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want."

    contraception,
    Paul does not believe in government handing out "free" contraceptions. That is not a religious stance, its a political ideology stance. He believes in allowing the citizens to be able use and purchase contraceptives whenever they wish.

    abortion,
    He is pro-life as are nearly all Republicans, religious or not. But he does not believe the federal government should have a say in the issue. Its a states rights issue. Once again, political ideology, not religion.


    separation of church and state, etc.
    What does that mean exactly? Because it means something different for a lot of people. While Paul says he rejects the notion of "separation of church and state" he believes in "free exercise of religion" and "no establishment of religion". So for example, if a group of students at a public school wished to pray before class they should be free to do so. But no student(s) should be forced to do so.


    I can point out all of these in speeches he's given if you'd like.
    Please do!
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  9. #29
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I watched both. I watched Obama's conference live then i watched Ron Paul's farewell address on YouTube.
    And this is what i have to say to ol Ron: Congressman Ron Paul, although i did not agree with pretty much all of your economic policies, however i did agree with your anti interventionist, anti imperialist foreign policy, and your pro civil liberties social policy, you were a great Congressman and was not afraid to speak your mind. You will be missed Congressman Paul.
    I share your sentiment on not always agreeing with him, but recognizing his value to our political system. I think his presence has generated much-needed discussion and debate, especially on foreign policy and civil liberties.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  10. #30
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    Re: Did you watch Ron Paul's Farewell Address or Obama's Conference?

    An extremist to a very flawed ideology imho.

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