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Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

Could secession ever be appropriate?


  • Total voters
    83
I believe that states have every right to secede. I can't say that I'm 100% sold on the idea of Texas leaving yet, but I can definitely say that our current government doesn't represent my ideals at all.
You do realize that you just shared nothing but your opinions right?
 
You do realize that you just shared nothing but your opinions right?
Yea I know lol. It would take a few paragraphs to get my true feeling expressed properly, so I decided to refrain from that. I just happened to read through this whole thread and couldn't help but respond to earthworm's comment (off topic on my part, I apologize) so I figured it was only right for me to make a comment that was related to the topic.
 
Any of the states is more than welcome to leave the Union as soon as both houses of their state legislature vote for secession and the other states vote to allow them to leave the Union.
 
Any of the states is more than welcome to leave the Union as soon as both houses of their state legislature vote for secession and the other states vote to allow them to leave the Union.

Now see, that sounds reasonable there. And I would even go so far to say that if the state legislatures voted in favor of it, then there should be a vote by the people of that state as well to make sure the majority is in favor of that decision. If the state voted in favor of secession but the rest of the country didn't, then the option of going to war would come in to play. But when a person makes a comment that "a state can't leave the union without a war", that sounds like a person that wants people to be suppressed and it's either "my way or the highway". Get over yourself, obviously there are people in this country that have completely opposing views and If you feel the need to forcefully impose your views on someone else, then you're part of the problem in this politically corrupt nation.
 
Now see, that sounds reasonable there. And I would even go so far to say that if the state legislatures voted in favor of it, then there should be a vote by the people of that state as well to make sure the majority is in favor of that decision. If the state voted in favor of secession but the rest of the country didn't, then the option of going to war would come in to play. But when a person makes a comment that "a state can't leave the union without a war", that sounds like a person that wants people to be suppressed and it's either "my way or the highway". Get over yourself, obviously there are people in this country that have completely opposing views and If you feel the need to forcefully impose your views on someone else, then you're part of the problem in this politically corrupt nation.

Seems a bit pointless since no state wanting secede would ever meet all of those requirements. And I guess the idea of a state seceding is acceptable to you since you believe that the attempt would be for good reasons and not bad ones. What if Communist's were behind the drive for secession?
 
I don't support secession because I think revolution would be more fun, secession is kinda for ******s.
 
We wouldn't have won any of our wars without them. Our enemies would love to have to face only multicultie girlymen. The blue states are yellow.

Well, we know of one war the blue states won without 'them', don't we?

Really a post revealing an almost incomprehensible lack of the history of the United States. In addition to being stupidly offensive to every man who fought and died for this country that was from a state other than the former confederate states.
 
And what rights must be compromised?

During the real war (WW2), the Japanese Americans were interred.
Young men were drafted....many to be cannon fodder....war is hell.....
Rationing of goods, even as I recall , limits to free speech.
It was felt that these limitations of rights were necessary for us to win this war.
I feel that its more important to win a war as quickly as possible.....rights must be compromised.

As to the guns and the future ban......England has done this.....I am anti-gun...the wild west is no more.....

And the silly seccession of individual states...to them....grow up...get over it....this can never be a good thing...
 
I think that 8 years ago, in 2004, if the people who hated Bush had started talking about secession, fox news and the like would have accused them of all kinds of treasonous anti-American things.

I think succession should be dealt with the way Lincoln did, destroy their economy, force feed them with progressive morality, and then forgive their treason when they surrender on their knees.
 
During the real war (WW2), the Japanese Americans were interred.
Young men were drafted....many to be cannon fodder....war is hell.....
Rationing of goods, even as I recall , limits to free speech.
It was felt that these limitations of rights were necessary for us to win this war.
I feel that its more important to win a war as quickly as possible.....rights must be compromised.

As to the guns and the future ban......England has done this.....I am anti-gun...the wild west is no more.....

And the silly seccession of individual states...to them....grow up...get over it....this can never be a good thing...

I can see nothing good come from detaining people based on their race. And the fact that you relate owning a gun with the wild west shows your ignorance when it comes to firearms.

Rationing and conscription is one thing but using a war to attack people based on race alone and to further an agenda falls into a different category. Just about everyone involved in shipping Japanese Americans off to camps in the desert ans so on admit that it was a mistake.


By the time the Japanese-American cases reached the Supreme Court the crisis which was supposed to justify the government�s action had passed. The Court, according to Rostow, faced two issues: should it automatically accept the judgment of the military as to the need for the relocation program, or should it require a judicial investigation of the question? Was there factual support for the military judgment that the course of war required the exclusion and confinement of the Japanese American population of the West Coast? Clearly, Rostow points out, if such steps were not necessary to the prosecution of the war, they invaded rights protected by the Third Article of the Constitution and the Fifth and Sixth Amendments.22
By its action the court upheld the main parts of the program and converted a war-time doctrine into a permanent part of the law. What the Supreme Court did in these cases, and especially in Korematsu v. U.S. was to increase the strength of the military in relation to civil government and for the first time in American legal history seriously weakened the protection of our basic civil right, the writ of habeas corpus.2 82.03.01: When Military Necessity Overrides Constitutional Guarantees: The Treatment of Japanese Americans During World War II
 
The Patriot Act was triggered by an act of war (9-11), an Islamist terrorist attack,...You want our government to do nothing ?????
Its not "political convenience", its the protection of our people !
During war time, rights must be compromised.
But, I do think we got "carried away"....

I seem to recall someone saying that "he who is willing to trade freedom for security, deserves neither". I tend to agree, mostly because once the feds grab power, they are extremely reluctant to let it go, and if I were to guess, I don't think we will ever see the Patriot Act dissolved, but will see gradually more of our rights stomped upon.
 
I would contribute money to assist the once great state of California to secede...all the illegals in the entire southwest would be heading for the golden state.
 
Seems a bit pointless since no state wanting secede would ever meet all of those requirements. And I guess the idea of a state seceding is acceptable to you since you believe that the attempt would be for good reasons and not bad ones. What if Communist's were behind the drive for secession?

As of right now I honestly don't think any state would be able to meet those requirements, however, those petitions going around don't come close to reflecting the actual support that's out there. What if the majority of this nation voted communists into office and a particular state was trying to get away from that?
 
As of right now I honestly don't think any state would be able to meet those requirements, however, those petitions going around don't come close to reflecting the actual support that's out there. What if the majority of this nation voted communists into office and a particular state was trying to get away from that?

Thats just the thing though it would not be just one particular state trying to get away from an unjust system. ANd at that point the United States as we knew would no longer exist, so therefor secession wouldnt be what that state was engaged in. It would be called Civil War not secession. In order for Communism to take over the US Constitution would no longer exist.

Secession would be a state trying to leave the union while the US Constitution was still intact. As long as the US Constitution is intact the attempt of a state to secede is an act of war on the perceptual Union. When the Constitution was ratified we went from a Confederacy to a centralized Government. And the Constitution lays out that type of Government.
 
That’s a tough question, while I can see just some of the many problems that would arise from such a thing, I keep looking at how divided this country has become, there seems to be less and less middle left and middle right.
We seem to have already become of nation of liberal values VS conservative values. Almost everyone I come in contact with has a we against them mentality. As our nation becomes more and more divided, so does our government, and I understand that, after all they represent those that elected them. As our government becomes more and more polarized gridlock between the parties becomes worse and worse.

I see at this time secession, peacefully done, as about the only viable option. We aren’t at war yet, so I don’t see why they couldn’t sit down at a table and work out details allowing such a thing to take place. People and business could be given 5 years (pick your period of time) to move to states that fit their thinking in values. With no penalty after that it would be like moving to any other country.

From the way this country is going, the divide getting wider, tempers becoming shorter and little hope of anyone or anything closing that gap between the parties I guess I would support secession, before I would support another civil war in this country.

Contrary to one poster in here, it has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with the beliefs of people on both sides. What our Constitution means and implies, what our government should be and do, and at times even the very basic concept of what is right and wrong. That list could just go on and on. We have become a nation that is divided by our beliefs. In my opinion it would be better to peacefully divide ourselves then it would be to get into another civil war over our beliefs.

I agree
 

It sounds like then that both of you are taking the idea that polarization is bad so lets get more polarized. Did it occur to you guys though that these two groups of people are not living in separate areas that can be easily divided? In other words I am not moving just because I think differently than you. The entire idea of segregating the left from the right is ****ing stupid and naive. So what are you guys proposing shipping off our children to the other side if they dont agree politically with us?

You guys really show why political parties suck. Instead of trying to work together you want to divide people by their political lean and tell them to live in a certain area just so you guys can all sit around and masturbate together singing about how great that your ideologies are. Meanwhile you will have created two authoritarian governments that the rest of us non partisan hacks will be at war with. In other words forget your little pipe dreams its not every going to happen or work, any rational person can see this.
 
It sounds like then that both of you are taking the idea that polarization is bad so lets get more polarized. Did it occur to you guys though that these two groups of people are not living in separate areas that can be easily divided? In other words I am not moving just because I think differently than you. The entire idea of segregating the left from the right is ****ing stupid and naive. So what are you guys proposing shipping off our children to the other side if they dont agree politically with us?

You guys really show why political parties suck. Instead of trying to work together you want to divide people by their political lean and tell them to live in a certain area just so you guys can all sit around and masturbate together singing about how great that your ideologies are. Meanwhile you will have created two authoritarian governments that the rest of us non partisan hacks will be at war with. In other words forget your little pipe dreams its not every going to happen or work, any rational person can see this.

That would be awful, I prefer the idea of each state being an experiment in democracy in all matters non-federal. Because when my state refuses to issue CCW permits for example, I can move to another that does.
 
Absolutes are ALWAYS wrong. That is why I chose option one. In this case, however, secession is idiotic to say the least.
 
Secession leads to hate, hate leads to civil war, civil war leads to suffering. - Yoda

I voted option one because I can envision circumstances where secession could be warranted. But we aren't near there, at least not here in MD.
 
I think that if Corporate control of USA politics becomes too pervasive, then secession is a viable alternative. We can't be starting resource wars. We can't give corporations influence in our military. We can't initiate tariffs to protect Corporations. We can't allocate extra rights to Corporations. It's a country about people first. We, the people.

Don't know how to tell you this, Dave, but all that already happened. Perhaps I had my irony meter switched off.
 
That would be awful, I prefer the idea of each state being an experiment in democracy in all matters non-federal. Because when my state refuses to issue CCW permits for example, I can move to another that does.

It is your liberty to live in any of the states that you want for any reason. If carrying a concealed weapon is important enough to you to move to another state that is your choice.

The Barbarian's pipe dream though asserts that by law if you have a certain political lean that you cannot live in certain states. Which would transform those two division of states into authoritarian governments where you may not politically lean any direction other than the direction the government dictates. If you disagree with the government you will be thrown out or arrested. Certainly not anything that I would publicly promote as if it was a good thing. I mean creating a law that divides up the country by whether you are left or right ignores the fact that not everyone is just left or right. Some people though they may be generally left or right a lot of the time support policies that transcend the left right paradigm.
 
It is your liberty to live in any of the states that you want for any reason. If carrying a concealed weapon is important enough to you to move to another state that is your choice.

The Barbarian's pipe dream though asserts that by law if you have a certain political lean that you cannot live in certain states. Which would transform those two division of states into authoritarian governments where you may not politically lean any direction other than the direction the government dictates. If you disagree with the government you will be thrown out or arrested. Certainly not anything that I would publicly promote as if it was a good thing. I mean creating a law that divides up the country by whether you are left or right ignores the fact that not everyone is just left or right. Some people though they may be generally left or right a lot of the time support policies that transcend the left right paradigm.

Kinda sounds like thought crimes and McCarthyism. "You a pinko?"
 
REPUBLIC, REPUBLIC, REPUBLIC! GO TEXAS GO!

I would always prefer a peaceful succession to open warfare. Although open warfare is still preferable to socialism and it's bastardized children liberalism and progressivism. Better dead than red and dead reds are even better still. I believe we are quickly progressing towards a violent confrontation as the the continued failing of the US Markets and society progress, caused by the encroachment of Socialistic institutions and thought invading our country. The death of 10-20 million liberals and other socialist ilk is preferable to the costs of what liberalism will do and has been doing to the over 300 million in this country. Just like the Phoenix, it is time for those who believe in God, self-determination, morality and the advancement of mankind to rise from the ashes of this once great country. You can be a sheep or you can a wolf, the sheep need to learn to once again fear the wolf and for the wolves to cull the heard. If the brain dead socialistic herd commonly known as liberals, progressives, socialist or communists will not allow a peaceful separation, then it is time to bare our fangs and start the cull.

It is time for those who love the freedom to stand on their own and achieve for themselves without the weight of carrying the useless to start migrating towards the freer states and those states should implement policies that encourage the sheeple to either change or move their herd to a different pasture.

Liberals, leave us be and head for the liberal havens and let the free people move to the non-liberal havens, then split amicably or violently, which ever the liberals choose. If you are a non-liberal in one of the liberal havens, then close your business (if you have one), move towards freedom and quit holding up liberalism through your sacrifices. Let the liberals bear the weight of their beliefs without the blood, sweat and tears of the non-liberal.
 
REPUBLIC, REPUBLIC, REPUBLIC! GO TEXAS GO!

I would always prefer a peaceful succession to open warfare. Although open warfare is still preferable to socialism and it's bastardized children liberalism and progressivism. Better dead than red and dead reds are even better still. I believe we are quickly progressing towards a violent confrontation as the the continued failing of the US Markets and society progress, caused by the encroachment of Socialistic institutions and thought invading our country. The death of 10-20 million liberals and other socialist ilk is preferable to the costs of what liberalism will do and has been doing to the over 300 million in this country. Just like the Phoenix, it is time for those who believe in God, self-determination, morality and the advancement of mankind to rise from the ashes of this once great country. You can be a sheep or you can a wolf, the sheep need to learn to once again fear the wolf and for the wolves to cull the heard. If the brain dead socialistic herd commonly known as liberals, progressives, socialist or communists will not allow a peaceful separation, then it is time to bare our fangs and start the cull.

It is time for those who love the freedom to stand on their own and achieve for themselves without the weight of carrying the useless to start migrating towards the freer states and those states should implement policies that encourage the sheeple to either change or move their herd to a different pasture.

Liberals, leave us be and head for the liberal havens and let the free people move to the non-liberal havens, then split amicably or violently, which ever the liberals choose. If you are a non-liberal in one of the liberal havens, then close your business (if you have one), move towards freedom and quit holding up liberalism through your sacrifices. Let the liberals bear the weight of their beliefs without the blood, sweat and tears of the non-liberal.

Perhaps you believe that violent confrontation is in the future because that is what you preach? Is Timothy McVeigh your hero? If I knew you personally I would call the white coats for you ot report you to the authorities as a potential domestic terrorist. But since I dont personally know you Ill just assume that you are a troll.
 
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