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Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

Could secession ever be appropriate?


  • Total voters
    83
Pretty much I would appose it, yeah.
 
I cannot think of any reasons why it would be ok to secede, but guess if it was REALLY needed then MAYBE. I think the idea that states are trying to leave the union is humorous. It is safe to say that I have not been thrilled with every president that has won the white house, and I have wanted the losers to win before, but i have never had the idea to leave the union, I am guessing that most of this stems from racism.

States aren't seceding, the perenially disgruntled are engaging in performance art.
 
Succession would be like a divorce/custody case on steriods, with guns.

Every state contains federal land, most contain federal military bases, missle silos, armories, public infrastructure like roads, bridges, ports subsidized and/or fully paid for by government funds. The power grid of every state in the lower 48 are interconnected, with electricity being bought/sold throughout the nation on a minute-by-minute basis. Same with economic factions, banks, Wall Street, financial intermingling of corporate, private and pension funds.

If it happens, it isn't going to be peaceful and when push comes to shove, I seriously doubt it will happen without civil war.

Your reasoning here is the very point I don't even discuss the subject, ain't happening without troops in the streets.
 
Secession is never a good idea. The last time I checked, this was the 'United' States of America. Those who think secession is a viable option, in my opinion, don't really believe that we are united. It shows that the country is not, at heart, in their interests. It shows that they don't really think we are a people united. It shows that they don't believe in freedom, and especially individualism, which is something that I thought was supposed to be a hallmark of Republican ideas. Which also shows the futility and uselessness of their ideas.

First off, you're a liberal and you don't believe in freedom or individualism, so drop it. Second, people that support secession support it because they want freedom and individualism to return. Lastly, if a country is not supporting your freedom they are not worth standing and need destroyed.
 
First off, you're a liberal and you don't believe in freedom or individualism, so drop it. Second, people that support secession support it because they want freedom and individualism to return. Lastly, if a country is not supporting your freedom they are not worth standing and need destroyed.


That is why Rick Perry is leading the charge for Texas to secede.
 
Any attempt at secession would lead by necessity to a civil war. The question then becomes, at what point do political differences justify going to war with your own people?

It's a tough question. Especially since someone is going to have to fire the first shot.
 
Only under extreme circumstances would I support secession, such as a breakdown or removing of the rule of law or the rise of a tyrannical government. I would also only support a movement that had no other recourse. Now, Chuck Norris was warning us about "1000 years of darkness" if Obama was reelected, but I don't really see it. The America that I know and love would have to change to something very different before I would want to leave it. I'm not a huge fan of nationalism, but I'm not ready to forsake this country because it reelected Obama. Things would have to get pretty bad for me to support such a thing.

I feel that most people would agree with me, or would be even more reticent about leaving. Spanky's right. No one but a tiny few actually plan on supporting this. It's the right's variation of the annoying "I'm moving to Canada" meme that liberals like to spout off whenever the fascist Republicans win the White House before they promptly slaughter the gays, destroy the environment, and turn abortion clinics into churches, like they do every time they win. People need some ****ing perspective here. I'm a libertarian. I could literally go on for days about how I think the Federal government has wronged the American people and broken its own laws. Fortunately, I try to not be whiny, let alone secessionist. We are not 1933 Germany. We are a country with an imperfect system that is governed by imperfect people with imperfect policies. It will still work a lot better than the most countries. The guy I voted for, the person who I saw as the sole qualified candidate, got less than 1% of the vote. Do you see me ready to fire on Ft Sumter? People need some perspective. Do I think President Obama will enact numerous bad-to-terrible policies? If you know my posts, then yes, but I also think that in four years the country will still have the Bill of Rights; our economic system will still function better in bad times than the vast majority of countries in good times; and our basic system of government and way of life will live to go on another day.
 
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Only under extreme circumstances would I support secession, such as a breakdown or removing of the rule of law or the rise of a tyrannical government. I would also only support a movement that had no other recourse. Now, Chuck Norris was warning us about "1000 years of darkness" if Obama was reelected, but I don't really see it. The America that I know and love would have to change to something very different before I would want to leave it. I'm not a huge fan of nationalism, but I'm not ready to forsake this country because it reelected Obama. Things would have to get pretty bad for me to support such a thing.

My thoughts exactly. I believe in secession only in such circumstances. It just drives me crazy when people state that there is NEVER a good reason to secede, especially when they grew up in a country that was born out of secession.
 
It wasn't a good idea for the American colonists? It wasn't a good idea for Texas?

Ask yourself, why did the colonists secede? Unfair taxation without representation, religious persecution, and various other things. Why do the red states want to secede today? Because they're candidate didn't win the election. That's not rational, that's a child throwing a temper tantrum. If anything, people who's civil liberties are threatened have more of a right to secede than the red states, people like minorities, the religious other than Jews and Christians, homosexuals, all these people and more, who, because of conservatives, are having to face having their civil liberties taken away. Not to mention Buddhists like me. And no, it wasn't a good idea for Texas.

Do you believe divorce is ever a viable option?

Only under extreme circumstances, like when one of the spouses is abusive. Divorce is used too much today for the dumbest reasons, so I would support restrictions on it.

Wait, believing in the right of secession goes against individualism and freedom? So I assume Thomas Paine was against those ideals since he pushed for secession?

It goes against the fairy tale of "united states". There's no unity. And, just because I'm a liberal, doesn't mean I accept everything every liberal, like Thomas Paine, ever said as gospel.
 
Since many believe there is no right to secession, does that mean you would not support secession regardless of what the federal government did?

Absolutely. The north spilled a lot of blood to keep us, so now they're stuck with us forever and ever, whether they like it or not.
 
Any State that leaves the Union will have to deal with the insurgents that live in that State first. Think modern day Tories.

All of a sudden, you'll have a lone (star) country that is not backed by the USA military. Suppose I get ideas that I would prefer myself as leader over Ricky the Rat Perry.
I could band together a group of well armed, like minded individuals and start the Texas revolution. After the smoke clears I would be the tyrannical despot that I've always wanted to be. Eat lead Texas Fed.
 
First off, you're a liberal and you don't believe in freedom or individualism, so drop it. Second, people that support secession support it because they want freedom and individualism to return. Lastly, if a country is not supporting your freedom they are not worth standing and need destroyed.

First, I'm a Buddhist, individualism comes part and parcel with the religion. So I chose a political view that best fit Buddhist ideals and ethics. Second, the people who are supporting secession are doing so because they want everyone to believe and vote just like they do. Where's the freedom and individualism in that? Why force everyone into the same beliefs, the same political views, the same worldview? How can you honestly say that that is freedom and individualism? Lastly, the very freedom that is upheld by allowing people to differ in opinions is the very freedom you and other conservatives are fighting against, all in the name of what amounts to dogma and superstition.
 
Any State that leaves the Union will have to deal with the insurgents that live in that State first. Think modern day Tories.

All of a sudden, you'll have a lone (star) country that is not backed by the USA military. Suppose I get ideas that I would prefer myself as leader over Ricky the Rat Perry.
I could band together a group of well armed, like minded individuals and start the Texas revolution. After the smoke clears I would be the tyrannical despot that I've always wanted to be. Eat lead Texas Fed.

Whoa there Tex, our state police and national guard will still exist. That also includes SWAT, police snipers, K-9, and Infantry to name a few. Many of them having been to Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
Succession could be possibly acceptable to me...but the situations where it would be acceptable are ridiculously small and unlikely to occur. If a President managed to find a way to maintain control longer than his two terms, significantly accelerated the stripping away of states rights and of personal rights, and created a situation where the vast majority of a state felt that they could not justifiably identify with the United States anymore...I could at least accept it as understandable.

It would lead to nothing good, and it likely wouldn't be successful, but it would be understandable at that point imho
 
First off Rick Perry lead the charge to the rear on leaving the Union REAL damn quick. His apologists on this forum posted how he NEVER meant secession.

No individual state could exist for very long without the other 49 to 50 depending on who is counting, states. The huge burden of defending the state would strip every cent from the state treasury.

But this isn't about logic and some of the most ardent have posted. Better to destroy the Union of States than compromise with others.

Conservatives are a wishy washy lot, their principles shifting like sand in the wind. I recall alot of chest beating over how sacred the Pledge is to them. MUST be recited in schools to help mold and shape our youth.

Part of it goes something like this-

One Nation under Gawd, INDIVISIBLE... but lose an election and its panty wad, head for the door time. :roll:

Oh to be made of sterner stuff-

face front, dress the ranks, wait on it...

Secession won't happen, can't work, quit whining and get on with life. The fix to 'conservative' woes isn't running home pouting. :peace
 
Secession is the talk of treason, of being the enemy. In fact our enemies want nothing less than a balkanized America. So I have to question the motive of the people talking of secession as if it were something good. There has been a line drawn and if you cross over that line you are no longer an American, instead you are a traitor and a target. Lock and load bring it on try it please.

Only an idiot would seriously think that civil war is a good idea, and secession is the first step. But then this is all for laughs since the population of any state that you pick would not vote for secession. SO quit masturbating people its disgusting to watch you guys act like fools in public. But then keep it going the far right needs to flame out so that we can move on as a country.
 
Succession could be possibly acceptable to me...but the situations where it would be acceptable are ridiculously small and unlikely to occur. If a President managed to find a way to maintain control longer than his two terms, significantly accelerated the stripping away of states rights and of personal rights, and created a situation where the vast majority of a state felt that they could not justifiably identify with the United States anymore...I could at least accept it as understandable.

It would lead to nothing good, and it likely wouldn't be successful, but it would be understandable at that point imho

But the states would join together to oust the dictatorship, not break apart into separate divisions.
 
But the states would join together to oust the dictatorship, not break apart into separate divisions.

Eh, not necessarily. Dictatorships usually don't have a giant sign hanging over their leaders head at the start going "DICTATOR". Sometimes they're able to actually gather enough will of the people in concentrated pockets to make it seem fully reasonable or by the board.
 
Secession is the talk of treason, of being the enemy. In fact our enemies want nothing less than a balkanized America. So I have to question the motive of the people talking of secession as if it were something good. There has been a line drawn and if you cross over that line you are no longer an American, instead you are a traitor and a target. Lock and load bring it on try it please.

Leaving the union is not being a traitor and anyone that supports the premise of Texas v. White has no idea what they are talking about. If you wish to shoot people acting peacefully then you have no one to blame but yourself for you own lack of moral character.
 
Since many believe there is no right to secession, does that mean you would not support secession regardless of what the federal government did?

If our federal government reinstated slavery, or was taken over by fascists or nazis (this could happen - check our congress , loaded with tea baggers)
secession is still not the way to go!
 
I think that if Corporate control of USA politics becomes too pervasive, then secession is a viable alternative. We can't be starting resource wars. We can't give corporations influence in our military. We can't initiate tariffs to protect Corporations. We can't allocate extra rights to Corporations. It's a country about people first. We, the people.
 
Since many believe there is no right to secession, does that mean you would not support secession regardless of what the federal government did?
Actually, I'd have a lot more trouble with the state and local entities behaving themselves, as history points out..
Maybe our good ole USA should throw Texas under the bus....not serious, of course...
 
Eh, not necessarily. Dictatorships usually don't have a giant sign hanging over their leaders head at the start going "DICTATOR". Sometimes they're able to actually gather enough will of the people in concentrated pockets to make it seem fully reasonable or by the board.
Everyone knows what it means by a president serving beyond the Constitutional limits. And sure there will be pockets of idiots that fancy their own revolutions. Those people are no better than the dictatorship that the rest of us would be fighting.

Leaving the union is not being a traitor and anyone that supports the premise of Texas v. White has no idea what they are talking about. If you wish to shoot people acting peacefully then you have no one to blame but yourself for you own lack of moral character.
Individually you can do whatever you please and leave the union, but as a State that is not happening. And those individuals and factions that try to force a secession are traitors.


And dont try silliness with me I didnt fall your attempt to marginalize me so that I join your silly ass attempt to justify secession. There will be no such thing as a peaceful secession. The Civil war sealed that deal a long time ago.
 
I think the principle of succession is good, it keeps an extra check on the federal government and allows states a way to defend themselves against corruption. At this point the federal government has consistently violated so many civil liberties as to render itself illegitimate. It may be to the point that only a mass movement of the states can reduce and reform the corrupted federal government.

Right now, in my opinion, we need to promote and defend states rights and the principles of federalism against the rising trend of authoritarianism in government.

Please list one "civil liberty" that has been UNDULY violated by our government....without good reason...
 
There is no possibly acceptable to it, it is completely acceptable! It is a constitutional right of the state. I say let 'em secede!
 
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