View Poll Results: Could secession ever be appropriate?

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  • Secession could possibly be acceptable

    69 70.41%
  • Secession is never acceptable

    29 29.59%
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Thread: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

  1. #51
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Please list one "civil liberty" that has been UNDULY violated by our government....without good reason...
    Almost every right we have has been violated. I'll list a few.

    4th Amendment: TSA was founded.

    1st Amendment: Your not allowed to peacefully assemble anymore(remember Occupy?). Oh and you can't protest
    anywhere there might be a secret service agent(which is almost, EVERYWHERE).

    2nd Amendment: They are already trying to work on banning guns.

    That enough for ya?

  2. #52
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Please list one "civil liberty" that has been UNDULY violated by our government....without good reason...
    Start with the Patriot Act and Defense Autherization. Do you seriously believe that suspension of Habeas Corpus is not a violation of your civil liberty?

    Maybe we should lock you up for a while without even charging you with a crime, a lawyer or even a phone call to give you some time to rethink your position.

  3. #53
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Individually you can do whatever you please and leave the union, but as a State that is not happening. And those individuals and factions that try to force a secession are traitors.
    That is not what the constitution says.

    And dont try silliness with me I didnt fall your attempt to marginalize me so that I join your silly ass attempt to justify secession. There will be no such thing as a peaceful secession. The Civil war sealed that deal a long time ago.
    Well then, if the federal government decides to kill people leaving their rule they are the aggressors. Fair enough?

  4. #54
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by dyanaprajna2011 View Post
    Ask yourself, why did the colonists secede? Unfair taxation without representation, religious persecution, and various other things.
    You stated that there is no good reason for secession.


    Why do the red states want to secede today? Because they're candidate didn't win the election.
    And I don't believe they should be trying to secede.

    That's not rational, that's a child throwing a temper tantrum.
    I agree. Fortunately, most temper tantrums end eventually.



    And no, it wasn't a good idea for Texas.
    To secede from Mexico?



    Only under extreme circumstances, like when one of the spouses is abusive.
    I agree. The same should apply for secession.


    Divorce is used too much today for the dumbest reasons, so I would support restrictions on it.
    Well I agree there are way too many divorces these days but I strongly disagree with restrictions on it. That is a slippery slope with very big consequences.



    It goes against the fairy tale of "united states". There's no unity. And, just because I'm a liberal, doesn't mean I accept everything every liberal, like Thomas Paine, ever said as gospel.
    Never claimed Thomas Paine's words as gospel. Just trying to figure why you claim secession goes against individualism when it has historically been individualists who have supported secessions.

    So do you think seceding from England was a good or bad thing?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  5. #55
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But the states would join together to oust the dictatorship, not break apart into separate divisions.
    So secession is treason but violently ousting the ruler is okay?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  6. #56
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    If our federal government reinstated slavery, or was taken over by fascists or nazis (this could happen - check our congress , loaded with tea baggers)
    secession is still not the way to go!
    Wow. Just wow.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  7. #57
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    You stated that there is no good reason for secession.
    And I stand by that statement. That doesn't mean that it's not sometimes a necessary evil.

    To secede from Mexico?
    I have problems with the way we came about getting this land. So no, I don't believe it was a good thing for us to steal land. It's not that much different than what's happening in Palestine.

    I agree. The same should apply for secession.
    As per my first statement, I think that it's sometimes a necessary evil.

    Well I agree there are way too many divorces these days but I strongly disagree with restrictions on it. That is a slippery slope with very big consequences.
    Possibly, and I have my theories on it, but that's not for this thread.

    Never claimed Thomas Paine's words as gospel. Just trying to figure why you claim secession goes against individualism when it has historically been individualists who have supported secessions.
    I am a loner and an introvert. I'd rather be by myself and left alone. However, I realize that I have to be a productive member of society. While I think anarchism is a great ideal, it's not practical in the long run. But that is what I am. This leaves me conflicted with such issues as secession, because on the one hand, I'm sometimes lean toward anarchy, and think that individual rights come before the rights of the state or people, however, on the other hand, I'm not irrational enough to think that I have some sort of special privilege that would allow me to operate in such a fashion, as such, I understand that I have to be a part of the society in which I live. This is why I think that secession is a bad idea, but that would also be dependent on a case by case basis. So, from an individualist point of view, I don't see secession as always being the wrong way, however, as someone trying to be a part of society, I think that it destroys the unity a nation should have to thrive and succeed.

    So do you think seceding from England was a good or bad thing?
    Short answer, it is what it is. They had their reasons, and whether it was good or bad, it's the way things are. I think more diplomatic actions could have been taken to avoid such a mess, but I also don't have any clear cut answers as to how that would have taken shape.
    "To do good, to avoid evil, and to purify the mind, this is the teaching of all Buddhas." -the Buddha, from the Dhammapada

  8. #58
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is not what the constitution says.



    Well then, if the federal government decides to kill people leaving their rule they are the aggressors. Fair enough?
    No that is not fair enough because it really over simplifies reality as if we were talking about the plot of a lame movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    So secession is treason but violently ousting the ruler is okay?
    Did you miss the part about the dictatorship? A dictatorship would mean that some faction overtook the US Government and the US is no longer and a new country has replaced it. I have no problem violent ousting the new country that violently took over America. Because face it the only that is happening in through violence.

  9. #59
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    No that is not fair enough because it really over simplifies reality as if we were talking about the plot of a lame movie.
    Is that not how you laid it out? A state/s leaves the union and the US government would issue war against those that left the union. What do you think happens in war exactly? Do you think the federal government isn't actually issuing the death of many of the citizens of that state and going to kill many of them? Would that not be exactly what is going to happen?

  10. #60
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    I would not oppose secession for a serious breach of trust etc with the government. Of course the reasons people are giving now with the petition etc are just ridicules and childish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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