View Poll Results: Could secession ever be appropriate?

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  • Secession could possibly be acceptable

    69 70.41%
  • Secession is never acceptable

    29 29.59%
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Thread: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

  1. #31
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Any attempt at secession would lead by necessity to a civil war. The question then becomes, at what point do political differences justify going to war with your own people?

    It's a tough question. Especially since someone is going to have to fire the first shot.

  2. #32
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Only under extreme circumstances would I support secession, such as a breakdown or removing of the rule of law or the rise of a tyrannical government. I would also only support a movement that had no other recourse. Now, Chuck Norris was warning us about "1000 years of darkness" if Obama was reelected, but I don't really see it. The America that I know and love would have to change to something very different before I would want to leave it. I'm not a huge fan of nationalism, but I'm not ready to forsake this country because it reelected Obama. Things would have to get pretty bad for me to support such a thing.

    I feel that most people would agree with me, or would be even more reticent about leaving. Spanky's right. No one but a tiny few actually plan on supporting this. It's the right's variation of the annoying "I'm moving to Canada" meme that liberals like to spout off whenever the fascist Republicans win the White House before they promptly slaughter the gays, destroy the environment, and turn abortion clinics into churches, like they do every time they win. People need some ****ing perspective here. I'm a libertarian. I could literally go on for days about how I think the Federal government has wronged the American people and broken its own laws. Fortunately, I try to not be whiny, let alone secessionist. We are not 1933 Germany. We are a country with an imperfect system that is governed by imperfect people with imperfect policies. It will still work a lot better than the most countries. The guy I voted for, the person who I saw as the sole qualified candidate, got less than 1% of the vote. Do you see me ready to fire on Ft Sumter? People need some perspective. Do I think President Obama will enact numerous bad-to-terrible policies? If you know my posts, then yes, but I also think that in four years the country will still have the Bill of Rights; our economic system will still function better in bad times than the vast majority of countries in good times; and our basic system of government and way of life will live to go on another day.
    Last edited by DrunkenAsparagus; 11-16-12 at 01:40 AM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Only under extreme circumstances would I support secession, such as a breakdown or removing of the rule of law or the rise of a tyrannical government. I would also only support a movement that had no other recourse. Now, Chuck Norris was warning us about "1000 years of darkness" if Obama was reelected, but I don't really see it. The America that I know and love would have to change to something very different before I would want to leave it. I'm not a huge fan of nationalism, but I'm not ready to forsake this country because it reelected Obama. Things would have to get pretty bad for me to support such a thing.
    My thoughts exactly. I believe in secession only in such circumstances. It just drives me crazy when people state that there is NEVER a good reason to secede, especially when they grew up in a country that was born out of secession.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  4. #34
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    It wasn't a good idea for the American colonists? It wasn't a good idea for Texas?
    Ask yourself, why did the colonists secede? Unfair taxation without representation, religious persecution, and various other things. Why do the red states want to secede today? Because they're candidate didn't win the election. That's not rational, that's a child throwing a temper tantrum. If anything, people who's civil liberties are threatened have more of a right to secede than the red states, people like minorities, the religious other than Jews and Christians, homosexuals, all these people and more, who, because of conservatives, are having to face having their civil liberties taken away. Not to mention Buddhists like me. And no, it wasn't a good idea for Texas.

    Do you believe divorce is ever a viable option?
    Only under extreme circumstances, like when one of the spouses is abusive. Divorce is used too much today for the dumbest reasons, so I would support restrictions on it.

    Wait, believing in the right of secession goes against individualism and freedom? So I assume Thomas Paine was against those ideals since he pushed for secession?
    It goes against the fairy tale of "united states". There's no unity. And, just because I'm a liberal, doesn't mean I accept everything every liberal, like Thomas Paine, ever said as gospel.
    "To do good, to avoid evil, and to purify the mind, this is the teaching of all Buddhas." -the Buddha, from the Dhammapada

  5. #35
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    Since many believe there is no right to secession, does that mean you would not support secession regardless of what the federal government did?
    Absolutely. The north spilled a lot of blood to keep us, so now they're stuck with us forever and ever, whether they like it or not.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Any State that leaves the Union will have to deal with the insurgents that live in that State first. Think modern day Tories.

    All of a sudden, you'll have a lone (star) country that is not backed by the USA military. Suppose I get ideas that I would prefer myself as leader over Ricky the Rat Perry.
    I could band together a group of well armed, like minded individuals and start the Texas revolution. After the smoke clears I would be the tyrannical despot that I've always wanted to be. Eat lead Texas Fed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
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  7. #37
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    First off, you're a liberal and you don't believe in freedom or individualism, so drop it. Second, people that support secession support it because they want freedom and individualism to return. Lastly, if a country is not supporting your freedom they are not worth standing and need destroyed.
    First, I'm a Buddhist, individualism comes part and parcel with the religion. So I chose a political view that best fit Buddhist ideals and ethics. Second, the people who are supporting secession are doing so because they want everyone to believe and vote just like they do. Where's the freedom and individualism in that? Why force everyone into the same beliefs, the same political views, the same worldview? How can you honestly say that that is freedom and individualism? Lastly, the very freedom that is upheld by allowing people to differ in opinions is the very freedom you and other conservatives are fighting against, all in the name of what amounts to dogma and superstition.
    "To do good, to avoid evil, and to purify the mind, this is the teaching of all Buddhas." -the Buddha, from the Dhammapada

  8. #38
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Any State that leaves the Union will have to deal with the insurgents that live in that State first. Think modern day Tories.

    All of a sudden, you'll have a lone (star) country that is not backed by the USA military. Suppose I get ideas that I would prefer myself as leader over Ricky the Rat Perry.
    I could band together a group of well armed, like minded individuals and start the Texas revolution. After the smoke clears I would be the tyrannical despot that I've always wanted to be. Eat lead Texas Fed.
    Whoa there Tex, our state police and national guard will still exist. That also includes SWAT, police snipers, K-9, and Infantry to name a few. Many of them having been to Afghanistan and Iraq.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  9. #39
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    Succession could be possibly acceptable to me...but the situations where it would be acceptable are ridiculously small and unlikely to occur. If a President managed to find a way to maintain control longer than his two terms, significantly accelerated the stripping away of states rights and of personal rights, and created a situation where the vast majority of a state felt that they could not justifiably identify with the United States anymore...I could at least accept it as understandable.

    It would lead to nothing good, and it likely wouldn't be successful, but it would be understandable at that point imho

  10. #40
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    Re: Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

    First off Rick Perry lead the charge to the rear on leaving the Union REAL damn quick. His apologists on this forum posted how he NEVER meant secession.

    No individual state could exist for very long without the other 49 to 50 depending on who is counting, states. The huge burden of defending the state would strip every cent from the state treasury.

    But this isn't about logic and some of the most ardent have posted. Better to destroy the Union of States than compromise with others.

    Conservatives are a wishy washy lot, their principles shifting like sand in the wind. I recall alot of chest beating over how sacred the Pledge is to them. MUST be recited in schools to help mold and shape our youth.

    Part of it goes something like this-

    One Nation under Gawd, INDIVISIBLE... but lose an election and its panty wad, head for the door time.

    Oh to be made of sterner stuff-

    face front, dress the ranks, wait on it...

    Secession won't happen, can't work, quit whining and get on with life. The fix to 'conservative' woes isn't running home pouting.

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