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Thread: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

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    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    OMG- are you serious? Destruction of private property is a good thing in your opinion?
    I think, that I learnt in history class, that posession is 9/10th of the law, so if you can't afford the guns to say what's yours, then your private property is not your private property, and it is ready to be "auctioned" away to those who do have the guns. Especially when it is about land and buildings ... no legislative support to your operation, no guns, ... is your business model even viable?

    Also, im my humble oppinion, environmentalists are better guys than most thugs, they tend to return the land to those owners/investors who are not desperate to profit out of it at all cost.

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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    I think, that I learnt in history class, that posession is 9/10th of the law, so if you can't afford the guns to say what's yours, then your private property is not your private property, and it is ready to be "auctioned" away to those who do have the guns. Especially when it is about land and buildings ... no legislative support to your operation, no guns, ... is your business model even viable?

    Also, im my humble oppinion, environmentalists are better guys than most thugs, they tend to return the land to those owners/investors who are not desperate to profit out of it at all cost.
    In this country, private property is private property, and it belongs to the owner, unless he/she has neglected to pay property taxes. And no, environmentalists who commit violence and destruction are no better than any other thug.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Terrorism is the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.So basically two things have to happen in order for something to be terrorist act, the unlawful use of violence and the goal to coerce and or intimidate a group of people with that unlawful use of violence. Merely bombing a building,merely killing someone does not meet that definition of terrorism. So the answer is maybe.
    When I agree with James on something, it is time to be ready for the apocalypse. You nailed it sir with the appropriate definition and answer.
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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Environmental Liberation Front (ELF) and Animal Liberation Front (ALF) are considered terrorist groups. I am currently taking classes toward a degree in Criminal Justice. All of my instructors and text books so far have listed these groups as terrorist groups. If the environmental or animal rights group does any act of violence or threaten violence intended to change social or political policies a certain way, that is considered terrorism.

    It isn't about the group or their identity, but it is about their reason for doing what they are doing if they are perpetrating violence or threatening people. For instance, a Muslim can blow up a building without it being an act of terrorism. Whether it can be considered terrorism will be completely dependent on what his reasoning is behind the act, not how we perceive what he did. Maybe he was the business owner and trying to get insurance. Maybe he felt slighted in some way by the person who did own the building and it was an act of vengeance. Or maybe he just liked to blow things up. If he wasn't trying to bring about some form of change, it isn't terrorism.
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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Terrorism doesn't become terrorism or cease to be terrorism based upon the person issuing the threat or committing the violent act in question.

    Terrorism doesn't become terrorism or cease to be terrorism if the cause for which it is committed happens to be one we agree or disagree with.

    As to the question of whether or not violence committed by "militant eco or animal rights groups" constitutes terrorism, that would need to be examined on a case by case basis. Incidental violence (i.e. shoving a security guard out of the way while trying to get away) isn't terrorism, while blowing up an animal testing facility during hours when it is reasonably known or expected to be staffed certainly would be.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Terrorism doesn't become terrorism or cease to be terrorism based upon the person issuing the threat or committing the violent act in question.

    Terrorism doesn't become terrorism or cease to be terrorism if the cause for which it is committed happens to be one we agree or disagree with.

    As to the question of whether or not violence committed by "militant eco or animal rights groups" constitutes terrorism, that would need to be examined on a case by case basis. Incidental violence (i.e. shoving a security guard out of the way while trying to get away) isn't terrorism, while blowing up an animal testing facility during hours when it is reasonably known or expected to be staffed certainly would be.
    Actually, even if they know the building is very likely to be or is completely empty, if they blow it up and not a single person gets hurt, it is still terrorism. They are still promoting fear and their acts are still violent.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    When I agree with James on something, it is time to be ready for the apocalypse. You nailed it sir with the appropriate definition and answer.
    The definition is close, but still fatally flawed.

    There is no logical warrant for exempting state/government forces from the definition of terrorism. (If it's not clear, the magical exemption is smuggled in through the word "unlawful").

    Terrorism IS still terrorism when the state or its agents do it.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    The definition is close, but still fatally flawed.

    There is no logical warrant for exempting state/government forces from the definition of terrorism. (If it's not clear, the magical exemption is smuggled in through the word "unlawful").

    Terrorism IS still terrorism when the state or its agents do it.
    You are welcome to use that definition, but it is not the general definition used by moth people Bombing a building during war is not terrorism for example.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, even if they know the building is very likely to be or is completely empty, if they blow it up and not a single person gets hurt, it is still terrorism. They are still promoting fear and their acts are still violent.
    I reject the premise that property destruction is automatically violence. In the vast majority of cases it typically is, because it predictably leads to harming a person or other animal capable of being hurt...but not automatically. Critically disabling a nuclear missile or an arms factory while going to great lengths to avoid physically harming personnel, for example, demonstrates an explicit organized effort to AVOID injury. Such would still be coercive, but not necessarily violent.

    Calling in a bomb threat with instructions to clear a building -- while NOT actually planting a bomb -- would of course be terrorism due to the reliance upon fear as a means of manipulating the actions of the targets.

    Planting a bomb WITHOUT warning and with no measures to clear the building of people and/or animals capable of being harmed would be terrorism as well, due to the reliance upon the aftermath of the detonation as a means of seeking change through direct harm.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Is violence committed by militant Eco or Animal Rights groups acts of terrorism?

    domestic terrorism.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
    - Mark Twain
    Run your own nation, play Cybernations.

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