View Poll Results: Should businesses be forced to offer healthcare to employees?

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  • yes

    6 18.18%
  • no

    27 81.82%
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Thread: healthcare and businesses

  1. #21
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Businesses with the capability to do so should pay their employees enough that their employees can afford reasonable health insurance. Forcing companies to offer healthcare plans was seen as a way to ensure companies act morally in that regard. But in the end, companies seem to just pass on the cost to employees and consumers, so it's kind of pointless.
    Why is that? Why it is an employers responsibility to ensure that people have healthcare?
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  2. #22
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    No. There is no business purpose in it anymore so it is a violation of the fiduciary duty to the stockholders of corporations to do it voluntarily and Obamacare makes it unnecessary to force it upon employers since everybody can get health insurance on their own with the company and policy they choose outside the 4 walls of their workplace.
    It is not a violation of the fiduciary duty to the stockholders to provide healthcare insurance to employees. Where do people get this stuff?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  3. #23
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It is not a violation of the fiduciary duty to the stockholders to provide healthcare insurance to employees. Where do people get this stuff?
    Wait until the stockholder lawsuits commence.......

  4. #24
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Wait until the stockholder lawsuits commence.......
    I don't have that much time.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #25
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't have that much time.
    Sure you do. Obamacare will be implemented in 2014 and goddesses live forever

  6. #26
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Sure you do. Obamacare will be implemented in 2014 and goddesses live forever
    Talk about effective deflections!
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  7. #27
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Why is that? Why it is an employers responsibility to ensure that people have healthcare?
    For moral, economic, and practical reasons.

    From a morality standpoint, your question is like asking why is it an employer's responsibility to ensure that workers can afford food or housing? Why does an employer have any responsibility to pay workers anything?

    It all comes down to the value the workers are providing, and morally how that value should be divided. If an employer is making enough money from the effort of his workers to pay not only the employer's own reasonable needs (e.g. other costs, and if the employer is an individual, his own food, shelter, healthcare, etc.) but additionally his workers' healthcare, I think he has a moral duty to pay the worker that money, rather than take it as an additional bonus for himself or his investors.

    But even putting aside the more contentious morality question, which I'm sure you disagree with, there is still...

    1. Employers will do better if their employees don't get sick often and have to take off work (or worse).

    2. Employers will do better if the country as a whole is healthy and less worried about future health-related financial costs.
    Last edited by Cameron; 11-15-12 at 11:29 AM.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  8. #28
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    For moral, economic, and practical reasons.

    From a morality standpoint, your question is like asking why is it an employer's responsibility to ensure that workers can afford food or housing? Why does an employer have any responsibility to pay workers anything?

    It all comes down to the value the workers are providing, and morally how that value should be divided. If an employer is making enough money from the effort of his workers to pay not only the employer's own reasonable needs (e.g. other costs, and if the employer is an individual, his own food, shelter, healthcare, etc.) but additionally his workers' healthcare, I think he has a moral duty to provide it, rather than take that money as an additional bonus for himself or his investors.

    But even putting aside the more contentious morality question, which I'm sure you disagree with, there is still...

    1. Employers will do better if their employees don't get sick often and have to take off work (or worse).

    2. Employers will do better if the country as a whole is healthy and less worried about future health-related financial costs.
    By 2014, they can get it readily outside the 4 walls of the company. Employees do better if they have food too, but businesses do not have to buy their groceries for them.

  9. #29
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    By 2014, they can get it readily outside the 4 walls of the company. Employees do better if they have food too, but businesses do not have to buy their groceries for them.
    I know, I was responding to the question of why employers who are capable should have to pay workers a sufficient rate for them to go out and get food, healthcare, etc. As I said in a previous post, I find requiring employers to directly provide healthcare plans to workers pointless and likely inefficient.

    But rereading my last post I see there is one sentence that should have been phrased better.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  10. #30
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    Re: healthcare and businesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    I know, I was responding to the question of why employers who are capable should have to pay workers a sufficient rate for them to go out and get food, healthcare, etc. As I said in a previous post, I find requiring employers to directly provide healthcare plans to workers pointless and likely inefficient.

    But rereading my last post I see there is one sentence that should have been phrased better.
    The rate at which an employer compensates for labor is based on the value of that work. The employer must offer only enough to meet the legal minimum wage or enough more to attract/retain qualified applicants. Not all jobs offered are intended to attract the "head of household", entry level positions are not intended to be permanent or to pay a "living wage". It is foolish to expect any McJob to offer a living wage or for the gov't to make it into one via social welfare programs. You often only get what you pay for and only pay what you get for.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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