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Does constructive encheatering make you a cheater?

I cheat because ...

  • ... because I am just a multiperson person.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • ... because my partner pushes me into it (constructive dismissal).

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • ... because of strategic reasons.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • ... other.

    Votes: 6 100.0%
  • Total voters
    6
joko104 said:
If I remember correctly, our OPer is young, so probably is looking at it more from a BF/GF or theoretical marriage viewpoint, rather than married, house, mortgage, kids, cars, bills and being entirely entangled with each other. Then "cheating" is a BIG DEAL because so much is at stake and it is a betrayal against the entire package and so much of one's self invested in it.

Thus you could get the sense of "after all I did and sacrificed for you, all we did and had, and you jumped into bed with your young secretary!?"
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To be honest, it comes off as someone immature just wanting to stick his dick in something and not feel responsible for his actions. It's her fault! :roll:
 
MaggieD said:
Your "Yes they can" makes as much sense as your last sentence.

"My partner made me do it." Give.me.a.break.
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So, don't you know your BF/husband well enough to know what exactly drives him up the wall? If yes, then you could construct a plan to start doing it just slowly, little-by-little ... so nothing will ever explode but he will end up doing all the worst and dispised unethical things before he even knows it. I don't want to do this to anyone, and I don't want to receive this from anyone, BUT this is easy to do, and I bet half of people do it all over the world, just for the heck of it if not more. Isn't my guess close enough?
 
ab9924 said:
So, don't you know your BF/husband well enough to know what exactly drives him up the wall? If yes, then you could construct a plan to start doing it just slowly, little-by-little ... so nothing will ever explode but he will end up doing all the worst and dispised unethical things before he even knows it. I don't want to do this to anyone, and I don't want to receive this from anyone, BUT this is easy to do, and I bet half of people do it all over the world, just for the heck of it if not more. Isn't my guess close enough?
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No, I don't think your guess is close enough. I think a woman can drive a man to distraction -- and sometimes lousy wives do this on purpose. I know a woman can drive a man to the point where he hits her -- because she wants him to hit her.**

I don't know any situation personally where a cheating spouse was driven to it by their partner, though. The ones I've known who cheated were complete assholes. I think it's a very convenient excuse.

**Please! Leave me alone! Ya'll know that's true.
 
ab9924 said:
So, don't you know your BF/husband well enough to know what exactly drives him up the wall? If yes, then you could construct a plan to start doing it just slowly, little-by-little ... so nothing will ever explode but he will end up doing all the worst and dispised unethical things before he even knows it. I don't want to do this to anyone, and I don't want to receive this from anyone, BUT this is easy to do, and I bet half of people do it all over the world, just for the heck of it if not more. Isn't my guess close enough?
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No, I don't think people do it deliberately. People tend to take for granted what they have - the chase is better than the having. The neglect, abuse and belitttling probably rarely is to deliberately harm the relationship. Rather, it is the respect, love and admiration is gone - just assuming the other person will take it. I believe marriage fail because after marriage the courtship stops.
 
ab9924 said:
If you can prove your thesis here, then you deserve a Nobel prise.
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You're the one claiming that someone can be forced to cheat. You need to produce evidence. So, show us that anyone can *FORCE* another person to cheat, entirely against their will and without their conscious participation.

Go ahead.
 
ab9924 said:
Dumping may be a LOT harder on both than a little cheating, many times, I risk to say.
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Leaving someone because you no longer love them is honest. Cheating because you don't have the balls to do the right thing is cowardly and disgraceful.
 
Hey! Everyone needs to lighten up our young OPer.

Statistically, over 50% of marriages experience "cheating," and divorce and break-ups are the new society common thing, if not even nearly the norm. And people tend to only count relationships with marriage licenses or cohabitation, not cheating otherwise in relationships. I mean, look our generals now? Cheating is very, very common now.

Sure, all of US are perfect, because DP is a place of perfect people of course, but he raises valid questions and, candidly, I don't think that the cheater is always satan's demon and the one cheated on was Ms/Mr perfection. Cheating often is at the tail end of a bad relationship where neither have yet called it off. Plus there are SO many things that "cheating" may involve it is actually fairly complex and diverse a topic.

I don't read his messages as trying to find excuses to cheat. Rather, he is exploring why people do.
 
MaggieD said:
No, I don't think your guess is close enough. I think a woman can drive a man to distraction -- and sometimes lousy wives do this on purpose. I know a woman can drive a man to the point where he hits her -- because she wants him to hit her.**

I don't know any situation personally where a cheating spouse was driven to it by their partner, though. The ones I've known who cheated were complete assholes. I think it's a very convenient excuse.

**Please! Leave me alone! Ya'll know that's true.
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Okay, so let me present here probably the most common cheating scenario in the world. A couple married, then after having a child or two, the wife gained a ton of weight (biology?) and now wouldn't care to undo it by working it off or dieting it off. This is extremely unfair on the wife, even before going into the marriage/cheating question, but ... . Now, the husband is trying to adapt to the "new" wife, but like with every adaptation, there is a failure rate. So, as a result, some men fail emotionally, sending the marriage to instability, some men fail physically, sending the marriage into cheat. How high a % sould we call asshole-ishness, and how high a % should we call normal? Is it reasonable to call a 50+% ubnormal/assholish, or 40+%, or 30+%? (The national divorce rate is 50 %.)
 
Surtr said:
Leaving someone because you no longer love them is honest. Cheating because you don't have the balls to do the right thing is cowardly and disgraceful.
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I think you over simplify. Relationships are just too diverse. One interesting aspect around her is the seniors and their relationships. Some in marriages for decades. It is NOT rare at all for one or both to fool around on each other. Very common. They both "hide it" from each other, yet both actually know, just don't know details. Yet in all ways their marriages are still intact and if that 3rd-wheel tries to mess with that marriage BOTH go ballistic at that 3rd wheel in the sense of stay the hell out of their marriage, ie fun and play time away from home is nothing more than that.

Are they "cheating?" Yes. And no. Its their marriage, their relationship, and they have the evolving rules and what it means.

It really isn't rare that one, the other, or both find "playmates" when traveling, away or for time away with the boys or girls - when actually it is just going out to play around - away from each other for a while. Right. Wrong. Their say. Not an "open" marriage exactly, and both always would adamently deny it if it ever came up to each other - because they are supposed to do that.

I think this is a vast topic that some are too over-simplifying around a value, rather than all the almost infinite variable.
 
Cephus said:
You're the one claiming that someone can be forced to cheat. You need to produce evidence. So, show us that anyone can *FORCE* another person to cheat, entirely against their will and without their conscious participation.

Go ahead.
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Some of my previous posts and examples in this thread have proven this a few times over. Now it is your turn.
 
Surtr said:
Leaving someone because you no longer love them is honest. Cheating because you don't have the balls to do the right thing is cowardly and disgraceful.
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Absolutely yes, cowardly and disgraceful is the world (... most of it).
(I have learnt this recently.)
 
ab9924 said:
Okay, so let me present here probably the most common cheating scenario in the world. A couple married, then after having a child or two, the wife gained a ton of weight (biology?) and now wouldn't care to undo it by working it off or dieting it off. This is extremely unfair on the wife, even before going into the marriage/cheating question, but ... . Now, the husband is trying to adapt to the "new" wife, but like with every adaptation, there is a failure rate. So, as a result, some men fail emotionally, sending the marriage to instability, some men fail physically, sending the marriage into cheat. How high a % sould we call asshole-ishness, and how high a % should we call normal? Is it reasonable to call a 50+% ubnormal/assholish, or 40+%, or 30+%? (The national divorce rate is 50 %.)
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That "divorce" rate of 50% is higher than than for many reasons.

First, they don't count all the couples who cohabitate in a marriage like relationship and then break up.

Second, it compares marriage licenses to divorce rates. If a person married and then divorces. That statistically is 50/50. However, if that person then remarries the rate statistically drops to 33%. 2 marriages. 1 divorce. Same person. Is that REALLY a 50% divorce rate? If a person marries 3 times and divorces 3 times, is that a 50% divorce rate? Yes and no.

A statistic of 50% divorce rate more accurately is over 60% - and that is if you do not count marriage-cohabitations without a license.
 
I've never cheated and never been cheated on. Hopefully that continues to remain the case.
 
ab9924 said:
Absolutely yes, cowardly and disgraceful is the world (... most of it).
(I have learnt this recently.)
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OK, OK. Come clean. Tell YOUR story. Stop being abstract and be specific. What happened to you or by you?
 
Forgiveness, understanding and trying to excuse your bad behavior are different things altogether. If you can't do it with your spouse present and you don't want them to know about it and you feel guilty - it's cheating. Fessing up should not include excuses. And whatever bad behavior your spouse has engaged in that you're now using to excuse your own bad behavior is not any sort of valid excuse for behaving badly yourself. The old Two Wrongs wisdom you learned in kindergarten.
 
ab9924 said:
Some of my previous posts and examples in this thread have proven this a few times over. Now it is your turn.
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No, all you've done is prove you don't know the difference between "encourage" and "force".
 
joko104 said:
I think you over simplify. Relationships are just too diverse. One interesting aspect around her is the seniors and their relationships. Some in marriages for decades. It is NOT rare at all for one or both to fool around on each other. Very common. They both "hide it" from each other, yet both actually know, just don't know details. Yet in all ways their marriages are still intact and if that 3rd-wheel tries to mess with that marriage BOTH go ballistic at that 3rd wheel in the sense of stay the hell out of their marriage, ie fun and play time away from home is nothing more than that.

Are they "cheating?" Yes. And no. Its their marriage, their relationship, and they have the evolving rules and what it means.

It really isn't rare that one, the other, or both find "playmates" when traveling, away or for time away with the boys or girls - when actually it is just going out to play around - away from each other for a while. Right. Wrong. Their say. Not an "open" marriage exactly, and both always would adamently deny it if it ever came up to each other - because they are supposed to do that.

I think this is a vast topic that some are too over-simplifying around a value, rather than all the almost infinite variable.
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I think you're complicating in an attempt to justify cheating. A relationship is an informal contract between two people, when a person cheats, which is to have sexual relations with a person outside of that relationship without the other persons knowledge or consent, the person is in breach of that contract. It causes emotional pain for the other party without any consideration for them whatsoever. A cheater is a rat, a lowly selfish creature who only cares about themselves, and what they want, which makes them untrustworthy.
 
ab9924 said:
Many cheaters cheat because they are just like that. Many cheaters cheat because their partners push them into it. And many cheaters cheat to line up the new person before breaking up and risking the unsupportive singleness period. Which category do you belong to?
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Never cheated and never would... been cheated on though.
 
ab9924 said:
Okay, so let me present here probably the most common cheating scenario in the world. A couple married, then after having a child or two, the wife gained a ton of weight (biology?) and now wouldn't care to undo it by working it off or dieting it off. This is extremely unfair on the wife, even before going into the marriage/cheating question, but ... . Now, the husband is trying to adapt to the "new" wife, but like with every adaptation, there is a failure rate. So, as a result, some men fail emotionally, sending the marriage to instability, some men fail physically, sending the marriage into cheat. How high a % sould we call asshole-ishness, and how high a % should we call normal? Is it reasonable to call a 50+% ubnormal/assholish, or 40+%, or 30+%? (The national divorce rate is 50 %.)
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This is a scenerio out of your imagination. If you can show me any statistic that correlates significant weight gain to cheating in any significant percentage, perhaps it's worth considering. But you can't just make up stuff in your head and say that accounts for cheating. It doesn't. Most cheating is all about the cheater, not the cheatee.

It's about chasing that wonderful hormonal feeling we call "lust." It's about chasing youth. It's about chasing danger. It's about hurting our spouse or significant other. It's about dodging responsibilities. (It's sooo much more fun to **** when you don't have to worry about paying the mortgage or change a diaper.) It's about chasing foot-loose-fancy-free. It's about chasing the person who doesn't care about your faults because he/she doesn't know about them.

Two tears met in a river. One was the tear of the woman who lost him. The other the tear of the woman who got him.
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You will never convince me that cheating is about weight gain.
 
Surtr said:
I think you're complicating in an attempt to justify cheating. A relationship is an informal contract between two people, when a person cheats, which is to have sexual relations with a person outside of that relationship without the other persons knowledge or consent, the person is in breach of that contract. It causes emotional pain for the other party without any consideration for them whatsoever. A cheater is a rat, a lowly selfish creature who only cares about themselves, and what they want, which makes them untrustworthy.
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In my latter comments I'm not trying to morally justify anything, nor condemn. I tend to look at topics more from pragmatic, rather than dogmatic" perspectives about other people's relationships, not my own. Each relationship 2 people have is uniquely THEIR relationship, not yours.

Not everyone believes in hell. Not everyone believes in absolutes. Not everyone believes in sudden-death of marriage or relationship either. In short, not everyone has your morality NOR has your definition of what "cheating" means. To some, as I noted, it means not putting in the other person's face nor in any other way letting it affect the relationship. Out of sight, out of mind. If that is how their marriage works, that's how it works. And since I know some "old folks" married for decades who do function that way, it works for them. Maybe, for them, that is how they stayed together for decades - to establish - for them - rules of propriety and decorum that work for them - as an alternative to having to divorce to have each their little adventures and "alone time." But the rules seems to be 1.) dont' talk about it to each other and 2.) don't let it interfere with anything they do as a married couple. The unspoken known to each other. Because it is not suppose to be spoken of between them. To not put it in each other's face.

They don't want a different spouse. They don't want to end their marriage. They just each want some time away from each other for little "adventures" and playtime.

If that is how their marriage works for them, that's how it works, and if so that in a way is cheating and a way isn't. We just know quite a few old folks whose marriages do function that way and have for a long time. And the only way we know is because my wife particularly knows some of them very well on a friendship level and for whatever reason they talk about it with her for whatever reasons they do.
 
joko104 said:
In my latter comments I'm not trying to morally justify anything, nor condemn. I tend to look at topics more from pragmatic, rather than dogmatic" perspectives about other people's relationships, not my own. Each relationship 2 people have is uniquely THEIR relationship, not yours.
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And I never said it was. You can create whatever examples you want, but for the vast majority, that isn't the case. Marriage is an absolute. It's a formal contract between two people that they will be loyal and faithful to each other. Just because you know some swingers doesn't change this.
 
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