View Poll Results: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

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Thread: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The intent though of the bombers of abortion clinics is to scare other clinics into closing.

    "In the summer of 1996, the world converged upon Atlanta for the Olympic Games. Under the protection and auspices of the regime in Washington millions of people came to celebrate the ideals of global socialism. Multinational corporations spent billions of dollars, and Washington organized an army of security to protect these best of all games. Even though the conception and the purpose of the so-called Olympic movement is the promote the values of global socialism as perfectly expressed in the song "Imagine" by John Lennon, which was the theme of the 1996 Games — even though the purpose of the Olympics is to promote these despicable ideals, the purpose of the attack on July 27th was to confound, anger and embarrass the Washington government in the eyes of the world for its abominable sanctioning of abortion on demand. The plan was to force the cancellation of the Games, or at least create a state of insecurity to empty the streets around the venues and thereby eat into the vast amounts of money invested." Eric Rudolph

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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Violence against clinics and doctors who provide abortions is terrorism by definition. The terrorists are sending a message meant to terrorize and coerce doctors into refusing to provide abortion services because they fear for their lives, and women are terrorized by the threats against them for using clinic services.

    It's quite obviously a tactic to prevent women from receiving a perfectly legal, constitutionally-protected medical procedure, thereby enforcing their will on the rest of the populace by violent means.

    I don't see how playing semantical musical chairs can obfuscate the obvious.
    This is something of a gray area as the bombing of an abortion clinic can be seen as a political goal but I think it's best to reserve the term for what would essentially be considered an act of war and differentiate between criminal offenses. It's an imperfect answer but the broad definition puts major league pitchers who throw high and inside in the same category as Osama bin Laden; making the term completely meaningless.

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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    It's not complicated - it's a problem of simple logic. I stand by the claim you italicized. the key words are "AND THE BOMB WAS INTENDED TO STOP THESE ACTS" - the implication being that the 'stopping of these acts' was the ONLY intent. The rest of the italicized portion was an attempt to explain how that would be the case, but it is by no means exclusive -it was intended for illustrative purposes.

    To put it in terms strictly of logic since you seem to be hung up on logic:

    If the intent was to coerce or threaten, then the act of violence was terrorism.

    Can I think of an example in which blowing up an abortion clinic doesn't have the intent to coerce or threaten? Yes, I can, and I described it.

    Therefore, the answer to the question "Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?" is: Not necessarily. The act of bombing an abortion clinic does not necessitate the intent to coerce or threaten, the definition of terrorism.

    The first thing I wrote in my original post: "I would vote that it depends on the reason of the bombing."

    That of course wasn't an answer, so I went with the most correct answer of "no". Because it is not always the case that it is an act of terrorism.


    thanks for posting again but like i said your original statement is still nonsensical, theres nothing to debate

    Ill post it again: "If the bomber had the belief that abortion is murder, that a crime was being committed and ignored by society in the clinic, and the bomb was intended to stop these acts, then no, that's not terrorism"

    I know what you are TRYING to say but the statement above is an example of terrorism.

    sorry the definition makes it that way.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 11-15-12 at 07:15 PM.
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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    On the contrary, people who are unstable blow up things out of revenge and for no other reason. It is not inconceivable that an abortion clinic could be blown up for no other reason than to get revenge on that specific abortion clinic or someone who works there. It is not going to be the most likely reason but it is certainly a possibility. It wouldn't be about spreading fear to the clinic, but rather to kill the person or hurt someone in the clinic.

    Another reason could be the same thing that causes many cases of arson, insurance fraud. The owner isn't doing well and decide to blow up their own clinic, making it appear to be an act of terrorism.
    To take the time to assemble a bomb (and not kill yourself) takes a great deal of planning and forethought. If revenge upon a single person is the the motive, it's far easier and far safer for the perpetrator to use a gun. Far more likely to get away with the act as well. If the grudge is against the whole clinic, once again, arson is far easier and less easily tracked by the police. Assembling a bomb requires skill and training. If that isn't available, then a significant amount of research and then a significant amount of risk must undertaken. Why do so when easier methods, and more likely to be successful methods, are available?
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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    To take the time to assemble a bomb (and not kill yourself) takes a great deal of planning and forethought. If revenge upon a single person is the the motive, it's far easier and far safer for the perpetrator to use a gun. Far more likely to get away with the act as well. If the grudge is against the whole clinic, once again, arson is far easier and less easily tracked by the police. Assembling a bomb requires skill and training. If that isn't available, then a significant amount of research and then a significant amount of risk must undertaken. Why do so when easier methods, and more likely to be successful methods, are available?
    No it doesnt take a lot of skill to assemble a device or substance that will blow up a building. To do it so you dont get caught takes some skill, but even then if you are making it appear to be an act of terrorism because then the first people suspected are anti abortion people then all the more reason to use the bomb. It doesnt have to work that well. It just has to be something that might work. You dont really think those anti abotionists who do blow up or try to blow up abortion clinics are experts do you?
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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No it doesnt take a lot of skill to assemble a device or substance that will blow up a building. To do it so you dont get caught takes some skill, but even then if you are making it appear to be an act of terrorism because then the first people suspected are anti abortion people then all the more reason to use the bomb. It doesnt have to work that well. It just has to be something that might work. You dont really think those anti abotionists who do blow up or try to blow up abortion clinics are experts do you?
    Well, that depends on how many they've blown up. Do it enough times, you become expert, and also a terrorist. Skill doesn't make someone a non-terrorist. Trying to instill fear does. If the object is to exact revenge upon someone, a bomb is about the riskiest possible way to go. And the most easily tracked, thus diminishing the chance to assuage blame. A bomb is an extremely showy way to express yourself. It's meant to not only destroy something, but to do so in the most obvious manner possible so that many other people know about it. Someone merely seeking revenge just wants the job done, and is more likely to do the deed secretively in order to get away with it.
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  7. #97
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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    Because it is true in one case does not make it true in all cases.
    ok then show us a case where it is not true?

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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Well, that depends on how many they've blown up. Do it enough times, you become expert, and also a terrorist. Skill doesn't make someone a non-terrorist. Trying to instill fear does. If the object is to exact revenge upon someone, a bomb is about the riskiest possible way to go. And the most easily tracked, thus diminishing the chance to assuage blame. A bomb is an extremely showy way to express yourself. It's meant to not only destroy something, but to do so in the most obvious manner possible so that many other people know about it. Someone merely seeking revenge just wants the job done, and is more likely to do the deed secretively in order to get away with it.
    Risk doesn't prevent people from doing stupid things. In fact, that is generally what makes them stupid things.

    The vast majority of planes blown up or hijacked before the 80s was all about one of two things, revenge or greed. It had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. D.B. Cooper comes to mind.

    But it isn't necessarily just for revenge either. It could be for insurance claims as well. After all, a doctor who owns an abortion clinic could easily have debt. It is also very likely that he has been threatened on more than one occasion by anti-abortion fanatics. It isn't that big of a jump for a doctor to seize on such an opportunity should he face some financial problem one day and figure blowing up his clinic and blaming it on the antis will turn suspicion from him and toward the activists.

    And there is nothing that says that people that blow up any building for any reason has to be smart.

    In the end, it all comes down to why they did it. But just because an abortion clinic is blown up or burned down, does not make either act automatically an act of terrorism. It all depends on the motive, the reason behind it.
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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Risk doesn't prevent people from doing stupid things. In fact, that is generally what makes them stupid things.

    The vast majority of planes blown up or hijacked before the 80s was all about one of two things, revenge or greed. It had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. D.B. Cooper comes to mind.

    But it isn't necessarily just for revenge either. It could be for insurance claims as well. After all, a doctor who owns an abortion clinic could easily have debt. It is also very likely that he has been threatened on more than one occasion by anti-abortion fanatics. It isn't that big of a jump for a doctor to seize on such an opportunity should he face some financial problem one day and figure blowing up his clinic and blaming it on the antis will turn suspicion from him and toward the activists.

    And there is nothing that says that people that blow up any building for any reason has to be smart.

    In the end, it all comes down to why they did it. But just because an abortion clinic is blown up or burned down, does not make either act automatically an act of terrorism. It all depends on the motive, the reason behind it.
    Alright. I'll grant you that a doctor blowing up his own abortion clinic to collect insurance is not committing an act of terrorism. However, that scenario strays from the topic of the thread which asks, "Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?" Obviously, the abortion doctor intending to collect insurance money is NOT in opposition to abortion. So that scenario doesn't apply here. I still stand by my assessment that someone blowing up an abortion clinic to protest abortion is committing a terrorist act.
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    Re: Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Alright. I'll grant you that a doctor blowing up his own abortion clinic to collect insurance is not committing an act of terrorism. However, that scenario strays from the topic of the thread which asks, "Is bombing a family planning clinic in opposition to abortion a terrorist act?" Obviously, the abortion doctor intending to collect insurance money is NOT in opposition to abortion. So that scenario doesn't apply here. I still stand by my assessment that someone blowing up an abortion clinic to protest abortion is committing a terrorist act.
    I was taking what came from your first post I responded to. In that post, it seemed as if you were saying that a bombing of an abortion clinic could never be anything but terrorism because it is always meant to spread fear and further some political goal because of the method used to take it down. I was pointing out that just because the building was blown up does not mean it was meant, from the perpetrators perspective, to cause fear. There are several other reasons that a person may blow up an abortion clinic. The caveat in the OP puts the motive in that makes it terrorism, but that is not what I was responding to to begin with.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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