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Thread: Kids n' Kondoms

  1. #51
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Anal sex has the highest rate of STDs transmission, oral sex the lowest.
    That was internet sarcasm.

    Until we figure out a way to get people of all ages to quit engaging in irresponsible sexual behavior we will have the debates and costs associated with abortions, unwanted pregnancies, STD's, and in some cases death. Any other so called solutions are just treating the symptoms of the actual disease of irresponsible behavior.
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    Well, it may not be the government's responsibility, but the welfare mother payment cheques come out of YOUR taxes. HAHAHA
    Also worth noting;

    HIV cell size - 100 nm
    Sperm cell size - 60x5 micrometers

    http://www.telecomabc.com/p/prefix.html
    Cell Size and Scale
    Cell Biology/Introduction/Cell size - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

    So yeah, welfare mommas are still going to happen, condoms or not.

  3. #53
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    While you may find some schools that will distribute flu shots, that is not the status quo in the education system. More times than not, it is not offered.
    I never said they shouldn't teach about condoms. I said they shouldn't distribute them. However, I also don't believe that condoms and the like should be the focus of the curriculum. I believe that abstinence should be the focus of the curriculum. The reason so many conservatives are against this is because it always leads into teachers overstepping bounds. Teachers should teach facts, stats, etc. When demonstrations start occurring, young minds race. When young minds race, you get idiotic teachers saying idiotic things.
    Ideally abstinence "education" would be a simple, immediately effective solution to teen pregnancy, std's and other related problems, but it's prior track record demonstrates otherwise. Hormones and the availability of willing partners override most of what is taught children and teenagers by adult figures whether they be teachers or parents, as is the case in a wide array of other social areas.

  4. #54
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Ideally abstinence "education" would be a simple, immediately effective solution to teen pregnancy, std's and other related problems, but it's prior track record demonstrates otherwise. Hormones and the availability of willing partners override most of what is taught children and teenagers by adult figures whether they be teachers or parents, as is the case in a wide array of other social areas.
    Trust me, if anyone knows that things don't go according to plan, it's me. However, you don't jettison the right thing to do (or teach) because it's just too hard to do (no pun). To use a football analogy, it's like sticking with the run. If you keep going to it, it will break through eventually. The biggest mistake our education system makes is only teaching sex education once. I remember as a kid getting sex ed for one semester in 6th grade. MOST kids aren't even thinking about sex then (the avg age is 17). Some are, but, that's because of their homelife more than anything else. We should begin teaching it at age 11. Abstinence should be the focus until age 13 (or before going to high school). Then, we begin to teach about condoms, birth control, etc in addition to abstinence with them being a minor part of the curriculum. By minor I mean they are taught about, the stats of their effectiveness is given, kids are told to AT LEAST use one if they are going to do it, etc. Sex education should be continuous. Not a one shot and your done kinda thing.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  5. #55
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    That article makes NO mention of condom size.
    I agree that badly fitting condoms can be a problem, which is why I agree with you that different sized condoms be handed out as well.

    The horrifically wrong myth is that put on any condom and you're safe (or if the guy has one on the girl thinks she's safe.)

    That is false.
    And who is propogating this myth? So far as I can tell the only people claiming that this argument exists at all are those who are against condoms in general, for some reason, since I have never heard it from the CDC, school, PP, etc.

    Condoms offer excellent protection against STDs / pregnancy. I was highly promiscuous prior to my married life with highly promiscuous and therefore high risk women. I had an absolute condom use rule. Never an exception (but then when married). Never a failure. BUT I absolutely used ONLY my condoms I selected and I kept total storage control of, and then followed the use them correctly rules too.
    That's great, but that is no argument against them being handed out in school.

    Acting up and presenting generic condoms as safe is a LIE. A huge lie. For schools to act towards parent's child with a "something is better than nothing" model is literally playing Russian roulette with the children as known, statistical HIGH risks to do something generically correct and factually wrong and stupid.

    The schools do NOT do it correctly, so as done it is are horribly bad practice - even setting aside whether this is a job for schools.

    Underaged sex is illegal. Lots of kids do. So is using drugs. Lots of kids do that too. Adulterated and badly made drugs kills kids. Under the "safety" theory, schools should give kids illegal drugs so kids that use illegal drugs are not using tainted or unpredictable quality and strength drugs. Same theory of protecting the kids - OTHER than with condoms they don't even bother to find out if they will do the particular kid any good at all.
    Thinking that teenage hormones can be controlled just like that is wildly naive. There is no hormonal switch that says "time to do drugs!" whereas they are literally programmed to start making babies as soon as adolescence hits. This is why abstinence-only education results in the highest std and pregnancy rates (and is also evidence that schools don't do it incorrectly): teenagers, who are already pretty spooked about talking to adults about sex are now expected to seek out proper birth/std control methods all on their own. However, when condoms are handed out to students en masse, no judgement is being made on the students themselves because everyone is getting condoms. Proper use and selection of condoms will only help.

  6. #56
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Trust me, if anyone knows that things don't go according to plan, it's me. However, you don't jettison the right thing to do (or teach) because it's just too hard to do (no pun). To use a football analogy, it's like sticking with the run. If you keep going to it, it will break through eventually. The biggest mistake our education system makes is only teaching sex education once. I remember as a kid getting sex ed for one semester in 6th grade. MOST kids aren't even thinking about sex then (the avg age is 17). Some are, but, that's because of their homelife more than anything else. We should begin teaching it at age 11. Abstinence should be the focus until age 13 (or before going to high school). Then, we begin to teach about condoms, birth control, etc in addition to abstinence with them being a minor part of the curriculum. By minor I mean they are taught about, the stats of their effectiveness is given, kids are told to AT LEAST use one if they are going to do it, etc. Sex education should be continuous. Not a one shot and your done kinda thing.
    BTW, call me immature but there are so many unintended puns in post. Sorry lol.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  7. #57
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Nothing in this article counters the argument that the correct use and education of condoms use is necessary in order for them to be effective. Neither is there anything in your link to substantiate your argument that claims of condom effectiveness are "completely safe."

    Are you advocating that condoms of different sizes are handed out in schools as well? Because I could get behind that if that's your concern.
    The article is not about effectiveness of correct condom use. I believe the correct condom used correctly is safe against all but genital herpes - which involves skin contact, no fluid exchange. However that is a different topic.

    Personally, I oppose schools handing out condoms as it is a concession (circumstantially) to illegal conduct and it simplifies complex sexuality questions.

    HOWEVER, IF the school is going to do so, yes then it would have to be done correctly, which would include handing out different size condoms - with it very problematical figuring out what that is without it just getting "weird" for lack of a better word. I suppose a possible means would make condoms available at the nurses station, but a mini-talk needed. It a bit more a problem if the girl is asking for it, because in a sense it requires asking "with who?" and that answer then might be knowledge of a felony sex crime against a student plus all the gossip dangers and other issues.

    There is only ONE school I've heard of with what seems a GREAT sex education program, but it is a private school for very rich kids of parents all of a like mind on sexuality - which is fairly highly promiscuous but also within piles of rules of conduct. They not only teach all kids sex education in regards to disease and pregnancy, but literally classes on how to be very skillful sexually in terms of acts of sex in real, physical ways (almost like Karma Sutra classes for which that is one of the text books), but they also have classes on correct relationship behavior and even marriage choice method and behavior in marriage, married life and parenting - that the students go thru such classes for year after year after year. A remote, usual community and with some extreme requirements and sexuality practices. However also fairly gender-role oriented too.

    A couple of curious practices they have is that the keep sort of a secret sex registry in which all sex must be reported - to maintain a way to track an STD risk - the record destroyed when someone married. It strictly forbidden to ever say otherwise to anyone who had sex with (to avoid later jealousies), and - oddly - the boy/man must always pay the woman a minimal "fee"- although she may require more - to teach that "woman are neither cheap nor free." That men should realize this from the start and a woman should never allow herself to be treated as cheap. They enforce rules by being removed from their social network and even economic penalties (big ones), for any violation of any rule. But they are almost like rabbits in terms of how much sex they have and with how many people. Not until 17, but then on that birthday the kid is basically in sex-heaven, with the parents blessings too.

    By the time married, almost all in that age group have had sex with everyone else - but can't say so - and they highly encourage women to be bisexual (not required) but are strongly anti-gay men being in the network. If gay then strictly limited to other gay men - an STDs control. Men are not allowed to be bisexual and remain in the network as an STDs barrier. Prostitution is an acceptable career choice within their social networking too, but only within the network. In a sense, all the girls/women are quasi so since all have to be paid for sex. Even after marriage. Sexuality within marriage rules is out of norms too, but strictly within sets of rules. They are extremely "proper behavior and conduct" sophisticated people yet also very promiscuous.

    And they have done this all for well over a century.

    Strange, huh?

    They claim they have never had an STD in their community, straight, gay or bisexual, never an unwanted pregnancy and never a divorce. Extreme levels of sex, sexuality, sensuality and relationship school across their entire educational lives. BUT there is no differences of opinions of the parents, all who came thru the same educations themselves, with rare exceptions of outsiders allowed in - not easy to accomplish. We know a woman who did make it in.

    The relevancy is that I think handing out condoms in an otherwise vacumn of sex, sexuality, sensuality and relationship education is a bad idea as all that are necessary to each other.

    Back to the issue, if it could be done in the RIGHT way, sure. I just can't see realistic ways to do it given how schools function in which all students are just a number among a mass of numbers.
    Last edited by joko104; 11-10-12 at 10:12 PM.

  8. #58
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    This brings back childhood memories - when I was 10 or 11 the schools in the Maryland Area had a condom walkout to protest and demand they be put in.

    I thought then - and think now - that it's the stupidest ****ing thing. School is for education - not for suiting up. Providing it condones it . . . so I prefer we keep school without it.

    Even though I had sex a lot in my highschool - still. . . I oppose it.
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The article is not about effectiveness of correct condom use. I believe the correct condom used correctly is safe against all but genital herpes - which involves skin contact, no fluid exchange. However that is a different topic.

    Personally, I oppose schools handing out condoms as it is a concession (circumstantially) to illegal conduct and it simplifies complex sexuality questions.
    Is the goal is to reduce stds and pregnancy (sex education), or is it to condemn teenage sex (abstinence education)? Because one education program works, the other does not. Numerous studies have already been done on this.

    HOWEVER, IF the school is going to do so, yes then it would have to be done correctly, which would include handing out different size condoms - with it very problematical figuring out what that is without it just getting "weird" for lack of a better word. I suppose a possible means would make condoms available at the nurses station, but a mini-talk needed. It a bit more a problem if the girl is asking for it, because in a sense it requires asking "with who?" and that answer then might be knowledge of a felony sex crime against a student plus all the gossip dangers and other issues.
    These all sound like good points for sex ed programs to address. Birth control without proper education is significantly less effective, I will agree.

    There is only ONE school I've heard of with what seems a GREAT sex education program, but it is a private school for very rich kids of parents all of a like mind on sexuality - which is fairly highly promiscuous but also within piles of rules of conduct. They not only teach all kids sex education in regards to disease and pregnancy, but literally classes on how to be very skillful sexually in terms of acts of sex (almost like Karma Sutra classes for which that is one of the text books), but they also have classes on correct relationship behavior and even marriage choice method and behavior in marriage, married life and parenting - that the students go thru such classes for year after year after year. A remote, usual community and with some extreme requirements and sexuality practices. However also fairly gender-role oriented too.

    A couple of curious practices they have is that the keep sort of a secret sex registry in which all sex must be reported - to maintain a way to track an STD risk - the record destroyed when someone married. Strictly forbidden to every say otherwise to anyone who had sex with (to avoid later jealousies), and - oddly - the boy/man must always pay the woman a minimal "fee"- although she may require more - to teach that "woman are neither cheap nor free." That men should realize this from the start and a woman should never allow herself to be treated as cheap. Strange, huh?

    They claim they have never had an STD in their community, never an unwanted pregnancy and never a divorce.
    C'mon, you can't say all that and not provide a link. I've got to see this for myself.

    Back to the issue, if it could be done in the RIGHT way, sure. I just can't see realistic ways to do it given how schools function in which all students are just a number among a mass of numbers.
    These are problems of overcoming logistics, not arguments against handing out condoms.

  10. #60
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    Re: Kids n' Kondoms

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You're just against government providing it. Right.
    I am against the government and public schools handing them out.

    If you are truly against abortion and/or "handouts" for people with unwanted kids, then isn't providing them with free condoms a small price worth paying to reduce those more serious evils? You could provide a hell of a lot of condoms for the cost of government assistance for one unwanted child.
    All the safe sex classes and free condoms are not going to stop people from engaging in unprotected sex.Many people use all kinds of excuses for not using birth control like it doesn't feel good, you can pull out in time, if you do it a certain way then you can't get pregnant, my religion bans me from using birth control even though that same religion also bans per-maritial sex and so on.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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